# Modern-Day Groups with Sinister Origins **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 9, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233 "2015-02-09T16:34:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/1 "2015-02-09T16:34:15Z")
In the thread “Innocent words with disturbing etymologies”, someone mentioned the term “Assassin”–which has as its origin a group of medieval Isma’lis who used terrorist-style killing of enemies by individual murderers as a tactic; they were so good at this, that the pejorative term used to describe them “hashishin”, or eaters of the drg hashish - became our word for any sort of individualized murderer for a cause. However, of course, the group is still around - led by the Aga Khan: > **[History of Nizari Isma'ilism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Nizari_Ismailism)** > > The History of Nizari Isma'ilism from the founding of Islam covers a period of over 1400 years. It begins with Muhammad's mission to restore to humanity the universality and knowledge of the oneness of the divine within the Abrahamic tradition, through the final message and what the Shia believe was the appointment of Ali as successor and guardian of that message with both the spiritual and temporal authority of Muhammad through the institution of the Imamate. > A few months before his death, Muha... Despite their medieval infamy, they are nowadays comparatively harmless and inoffensive. Another example of this sort of thing is the Anabaptists–nowadays, they are as inoffensive a sect as you could find–but it was not always so: > **[Münster rebellion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_Rebellion)** > > The Münster rebellion (German: Täuferreich von Münster, "Anabaptist dominion of Münster") was an attempt by radical Anabaptists to establish a communal sectarian government in the German city of Münster – then under the large Prince-Bishopric of Münster in the Holy Roman Empire. > The city was under Anabaptist rule from February 1534, when the city hall was seized and Bernhard Knipperdolling installed as mayor, until its fall in June 1535. It was Melchior Hoffman, who initiated adult baptism in St... Any other examples of this sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/2 "2015-02-09T17:09:12Z")
I read the thread title as “Modern-Day Groups with Sinister Organs”, which brought to mind Procol Harum (although they weren’t the first thing I thought of). ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/3 "2015-02-09T17:15:21Z")
The [Inquisition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith) is still around. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/4 "2015-02-09T17:46:49Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > The [Inquisition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith) is still around. Awesome. 😃 That’s exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/5 "2015-02-10T00:06:01Z")
IIRC, there were one or two Orders of the RCC which were founded as assassins during the Reformation. (For those who don’t know: the “Heretics” burned at the stake were Protestants). ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/6 "2015-02-11T01:18:05Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > The [Inquisition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith) is still around. I didn’t expect that. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/7 "2015-02-11T14:57:39Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I didn’t expect that. Nobody expects that. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/8 "2015-02-11T15:39:51Z")
Spanish or Portuguese? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/9 "2015-02-11T15:53:36Z")
They are mostly faded and forgotten, but a lot of fraternal organizations had questionable roots, organizing one immigrant or minority population or another for better jobs, wages, treatment or just to beat hell out of that other immigrant population. A number of those organized in the northern states from 1900-1930 or so were openly Socialist or Communist societies. German Turnverein groups still exist in many cities, and they had their… questionable eras with strong ties to National Socialism. And, of course, there’s the Noble Order of Red Men, organized to celebrate the wisdom and strength of Injuns… and open, until quite recently, only to white males. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/10 "2015-02-11T17:59:26Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > Spanish or Portuguese? It’s run by a German now. Because it’s not like they’ve ever taken things too far. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/11 "2015-02-11T20:22:20Z")
Well, not sinister, but the Seventh Day Adventists are the modern descendants of the Millerite Church that believed that the End of the World was upon us. In 1833 > **[Millerism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerism)** > > Christianity • Protestantism > The Millerites were the followers of the teachings of William Miller, who in 1831 first shared publicly his belief that the Second Advent of Jesus Christ would occur in roughly the year 1843–1844. Coming during the Second Great Awakening, his teachings were spread widely and grew in popularity, which led to the event known as the Great Disappointment. > Miller was a prosperous farmer, a Baptist lay preacher, and student of the Bible living in northeastern New York. ... [http://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Millerites?rec=607](http://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Millerites?rec=607) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/12 "2015-02-11T20:48:18Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Another example of this sort of thing is the Anabaptists–nowadays, they are as inoffensive a sect as you could find–but it was not always so: > [Münster rebellion - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_Rebellion) To explain further, the most common Anabaptists you’re likely to see in the US are Mennonites and Amish. They completely rejected the the violence of the other Anabaptists and are pacifists. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ For an interesting history, the [Knights Hospitaller](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta), a medieval order used to maintain Christian control of the Holy Land, are still around as an international aid organization. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/13 "2015-02-23T15:35:46Z")
The Shriners origin is shrouded in mystery but believed to have been an offshoot of the Knights Templar who sacrificed babies to Baphomet. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/14 "2015-02-23T15:39:31Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Well, not sinister, but the Seventh Day Adventists are the modern descendants of the Millerite Church that believed that the End of the World was upon us. In 1833 > > [Millerism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerism) > > [http://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Millerites?rec=607](http://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Millerites?rec=607) The [Jehovah’s Witnesses and Branch Davidians](http://www.bible.ca/jw-history.htm) are also descendants of the Millerite movement. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/15 "2015-02-23T16:02:24Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > The Shriners origin is shrouded in mystery but believed to have been an offshoot of the Knights Templar who sacrificed babies to Baphomet. If you believe Philip the Fair. 😉 Not sure I would consider him exactly impartial in the matter. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/16 "2015-02-23T17:35:08Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > The Shriners origin is shrouded in mystery but believed to have been an offshoot of the Knights Templar who sacrificed babies to Baphomet. [Or it was founded in New York in 1870 by a guy who was really into Arabian Nights cosplay.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shriners#History) Close enough, right? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-groups-with-sinister-origins/712233/17 "2015-02-23T18:01:52Z")
Not exactly “sinister” to the free-wheeling libertines of the Dope, but: Global silverware giant [Oneida Limited](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Limited) grew out of the [Oneida Community](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community), a utopian religious community most famous for advocating “free love,” seeing “exclusive wedlock as an unhealthy institution,” and so on.