# Modern instant classics with cross-genre appeal **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 17, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709 "2009-08-17T08:24:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/1 "2009-08-17T08:24:42Z")
I recently read Gaiman’s _American Gods_ and was totally floored. Not only was it well written and engaging, it evinced an understand of America-as-an-entity that I haven’t seen many Americans, let alone native born Brits, flash to. It also took a fantasy story about gods and magic and made it something that (at least I’d argue) should be a fantastic read even for people who aren’t fans of swords and sorcery, or what have you. I’m currently about 1/2 of the way through Stephenson’s _Cryptonomicon_ and unless he totally bungles the end, then I’d have to say that the prose is first rate, the plot is fantastic and it somehow manages to make math fun to read about for folks other than mathematicians. I’d say that a few other books probably fall under this category like _Catch 22_, a war story that’s brilliantly written and fun to read even if you’re not really interested in reading about the horror-and-absurdity-of-war. I’m sure there are others, but I’m blanking at present. So, what books (fiction or not) would you suggest that are absolute masterpieces and people who don’t generally like the genres should still check them out? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/2 "2009-08-17T08:34:44Z")
If you haven’t read _Good Omens_ by Gaiman and Pratchett, you must go out and find a copy and not rest until you’ve read the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/3 "2009-08-17T09:02:35Z")
Yeepers, read it. Although, to be honest, I didn’t enjoy any of it half as much as I did the anecdote in the introduction about how one of their interview hosts didn’t realize it was a work of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/4 "2009-08-17T12:04:44Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I recently read Gaiman’s _American Gods_ and was totally floored. Not only was it well written and engaging, it evinced an understand of America-as-an-entity that I haven’t seen many Americans, let alone native born Brits, flash to. It also took a fantasy story about gods and magic and made it something that (at least I’d argue) should be a fantastic read even for people who aren’t fans of swords and sorcery, or what have you. > I’m currently about 1/2 of the way through Stephenson’s _Cryptonomicon_ and unless he totally bungles the end, then I’d have to say that the prose is first rate, the plot is fantastic and it somehow manages to make math fun to read about for folks other than mathematicians. > > I’d say that a few other books probably fall under this category like _Catch 22_, a war story that’s brilliantly written and fun to read even if you’re not really interested in reading about the horror-and-absurdity-of-war. > > I’m sure there are others, but I’m blanking at present. So, what books (fiction or not) would you suggest that are absolute masterpieces and people who don’t generally like the genres should still check them out? _Cryptonomicon_ is an excellent example. Going back a bit, I’d suggest John Crowley’s _Little Big_ as a cross-genre masterpiece - in that it’s to be found shelved on the fantasy / SF bookshelves, and is a bona fide masterpiece of American writing. It doesn’t have the wider appeal of something like Cryptonomicon, though - Crowley has a fairly dense style, nothing ridiculous, but he’s definitely not a page-turner author like NS. The best genre book I’ve read recently was China Mieville’s _The Scar_ - probably the strongest SF novel I’ve picked up in a few years. Not sure if it really has that cross-genre ingredient though. I think if one didn’t care for SF/fantasy it might not be all that appealing. It’s interesting to try and put your finger on what makes a book transcend its genre. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/5 "2009-08-17T12:59:14Z")
_Freakonomics_ is commonly recommended to people who aren’t interested in economics. I found it enjoyable. I only wish I was clever enough that I could apply some of the methods to answer some interesting questions of my own. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/6 "2009-08-17T14:18:07Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yeepers, read it. Although, to be honest, I didn’t enjoy any of it half as much as I did the anecdote in the introduction about how one of their interview hosts didn’t realize it was a work of fiction. Wait, someone thought _Good Omens_ was nonfiction? ---
**Author:** ![Transistor\_Rhythm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Transistor\_Rhythm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Transistor_Rhythm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/7 "2009-08-17T20:27:34Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m currently about 1/2 of the way through Stephenson’s _Cryptonomicon_ and unless he totally bungles the end Anyone else just do one of these on behalf of this poor guy? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Transistor\_Rhythm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Transistor\_Rhythm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Transistor_Rhythm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/8 "2009-08-17T20:56:50Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > _Cryptonomicon_ is an excellent example. > > Going back a bit, I’d suggest John Crowley’s _Little Big_ as a cross-genre masterpiece - in that it’s to be found shelved on the fantasy / SF bookshelves, and is a bona fide masterpiece of American writing. It doesn’t have the wider appeal of something like Cryptonomicon, though - Crowley has a fairly dense style, nothing ridiculous, but he’s definitely not a page-turner author like NS. > > The best genre book I’ve read recently was China Mieville’s _The Scar_ - probably the strongest SF novel I’ve picked up in a few years. Not sure if it really has that cross-genre ingredient though. I think if one didn’t care for SF/fantasy it might not be all that appealing. It’s interesting to try and put your finger on what makes a book transcend its genre. Hey, where have you been all of my life? I was going to mention those two (or at least _Perdido Street Station_) as bona fide Classics. But just for a moment, I have to say that I really bristle at the idea that “genre” work is somehow obligated to transcend its genre-ness and appeal to a mainstream, middle-of-the-road audience to be legitimized. It greatly bothers me when authors like Michael Chabon, Margaret Atwood, Steve Erickson (not the Malazan guy), Jonathan Lethem, John Crowley, Kelly Link, etc. are classified as “Literature” rather than “genre” work, as though they’ve been given approval to exit the ghetto of “Sci-Fi” or “Fantasy.” This reinforces the awful idea that “genre” is a perjorative and that genre fiction is somehow inherently less worthy than (stuffy throat-clearing) “Literature.” Steven Erikson is in the middle of writing the greatest fantasy series ever published. It makes preceding epic fantasy from Lord Dunsany and George Macdonald through Tolkien and Lewis look like the Epic of Gilgamesh compared to Proust - it just makes them look like primitive cave wall drawings compared to what it’s already accomplished so far. Who cares if it’ll appeal to any middle of the road audience? (hint - it won’t. ever.) John Crowley is the great living man of American letters and nobody really knows it. _Little, Big_ is our national epic that nobody’s ever read. _Engine Summer_ is our _pan tadeusz_ and nobody cares. That’s ok. Jack Vance is our Dickens, Gene Wolfe our Joyce. Nobody outside of sci-fi fandom reads them. Thomas Pynchon. Sorority chicks don’t read Philip K. Dick or Samuel Delany. Nobody reads _Dhalgren_. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/9 "2009-08-17T22:55:48Z")
> [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > Anyone else just do one of these on behalf of this poor guy? :smack: Yeah. Be forewarned - Stephenson is not that great at endings. In fact, I’d say that when all’s said and done, his books are less than the sum of their parts. But what parts! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/10 "2009-08-18T00:10:48Z")
> [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > Anyone else just do one of these on behalf of this poor guy? :smack: I am now a sad panda. How bad does he bungle the second half? > [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Wait, someone thought _Good Omens_ was nonfiction? Yep. I have it packed away currently so I can’t check on the exact quote, but yah, one of the guys who interviewed them for the book tour thought that the book was nonfiction. > [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > _Freakonomics_ is commonly recommended to people who aren’t interested in economics. I’ve heard of it, might have to pick it up sooner or later, thanks. > [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Going back a bit, I’d suggest John Crowley’s _Little Big_ as a cross-genre masterpiece […] > The best genre book I’ve read recently was China Mieville’s _The Scar_ Can you elaborate a bit on what they’re about? I’d rather not go to wiki. > [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > But just for a moment, I have to say that I really bristle at the idea that “genre” work is somehow obligated to transcend its genre-ness and appeal to a mainstream, middle-of-the-road audience to be legitimized. Not saying that it has to, or has to be “legitimized” or what have you. I was just curious and figured that I’d see what the teeming millions had to say. > [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > Steven Erikson is in the middle of writing the greatest fantasy series ever published. Can you elaborate a bit? Even though it’s not in accord with the OP exactly I’m still curious. > [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > Jack Vance is our Dickens, Gene Wolfe our Joyce. Well, Dickens bored the piss out of me and I never did like any of his work, but as you can tell I’m a fan of Joye. Can you elaborate on Wolfe’s work? I’m generally pretty ignorant of modern lit. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/11 "2009-08-18T01:27:03Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Well, Dickens bored the piss out of me and I never did like any of his work, but as you can tell I’m a fan of Joye. Can you elaborate on Wolfe’s work? I’m generally pretty ignorant of modern lit. Gene Wolfe is a master of the unreliable narrator. His novels are generally exceptionally well-crafted and subtle, with many more things going than are at first apparent. And his characters are quite likable. _Somewhat_ like Zelazny’s work. I’d recommend reading _Soldier of the Mist_ for a good introduction to Wolfe. It’s set in Classical Greece, with the main character being an amnesiac unable to form long-term memories (similar to the character in the movie _Memento_). It seems a simple enough narrative, but there is _much_ going on under the surface. It’s a relatively easy read, though, unlike some of his other works. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/12 "2009-08-18T18:27:09Z")
Found mention of the [Good Omens interveiw](http://www.locusmag.com/2006/Issues/1991_Gaiman_Pratchett.html). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/13 "2009-08-18T19:32:11Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I am now a sad panda. > How bad does he bungle the second half? Neal Stephenson’s novels don’t end. They just stop. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instant-classics-with-cross-genre-appeal/506709/14 "2009-08-18T19:51:51Z")
I guess I’m one of the few people who like the ending of _Cryptonomicon_. BUt I would suggest that Stephenson’s books are about the journey rather than the destination.