# Modern instruments of torture **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847 "2003-06-14T15:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/41 "2003-06-16T15:15:41Z")
Near-drowning (holding someone’s head underwater) and partial suffocation (e.g. with plastic bags over the heads) are also popular techniques, and require little equipment. The film **Battle of Algiers** graphically depicts the techniques used by French special forces in Algeria who seemed to favour such techniques. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/42 "2003-06-16T15:46:20Z")
Civilized (“civilized”?) countries do have to be more creative in coming up with seemingly-moderate, but really quite demoralizing, interrogation techniques. Seem to remember the Brits used to make suspected IRA detainees stand (or stand in contorted positions) for hours on end. See also: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/439554.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/439554.stm) ---
**Author:** ![punkkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@punkkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punkkid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/43 "2003-06-16T15:54:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by heresiarch \* > \*\* there’s music that’s a lot more grating than Metallica - he recommends Norwegian Death Metal._\* Or screamo-hardcore punk bands like Shai Hulud. I’m a punk fan and I can’t even take that for a few minutes ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/44 "2003-06-16T16:10:13Z")
Yes, modern efficient torture techniques dispense with props and tools. These methods were pioneered in the early Soviet Union, as documented in “The Gulag Archipelago”. Simply deprive the victim of sleep, make them stand or sit in an uncomfortable position, strip them naked in a cold environment. The victim has no marks, there is no evidence, and if the torture is revealed it doesn’t sound that bad. Of course, these techniques take time. But several days without sleep, muscles cramping from standing, and hypothermia are just as effective as medieval methods. But of course, the purpose of the torture comes into play. In many cases the torture is simply for the amusement of the interrogator and the information or confession is secondary at best. If that is the case then modern methods won’t be used since they don’t satisfy the psychology of the torturer. Then the methods used will be what gets the torturer off, even if they aren’t the most effective. But if the torturer really is interested in obtaining information or getting the victim to sign a confession, then modern methods are best. And of course psychological manipulation is more important than the torture itself. You give the victim a reason ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/45 "2003-06-16T16:12:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Huerta88 \* > \*\* > Seem to remember the Brits used to make suspected IRA detainees stand (or stand in contorted positions) for hours on end. > > See also: > [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/439554.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/439554.stm) \*\* The Soviets did that too. It ties into the pain tactics of the basic interrogation manual i listed [here](http://www.radio4all.org/crackcia/torture.htm) "Pain The torture situation is a contest between the subject and his tormentor. Pain that is being inflicted upon the subject from outside himself may actually intensify his will to resist. On the other hand, pain that he feels he is inflicting upon himself is more likely to sap his resistance. For example, if he is required to maintain a rigid position such as standing at attention or sitting on a stool for long periods of time, the immediate source of discomfort is not the questioner but the subject himself. After a while, the subject is likely to exhaust his internal motivational strength. " ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/46 "2003-06-16T17:08:09Z")
Sorry, I was cut off. As I was saying, you give the victim a reason to give up. If holding out is important then many people can resist torture to a surprising degree. So it is the task of the interrorgator to allow the victim to come to believe that resisting the torture is pointless. The Soviets used this extensively in the purges. Resisting giving a confession was useless. The interrogators knew the victims were innocent, the victims knew the interrogators knew they were innocent. The victims knew they would be executed no matter what they did. So signing the confession wasn’t a betrayal, it was just cutting short an inevitable process. And the confessions of one victim could be used against the next. The victim confesses and denounces the person the authorities request. The next victim’s sense of the inevitability of the process is intensified. The authorities singled him out, they can single out anyone they wish, so why not confess and denounce whoever they want you to denounce? After all, they can get anyone they want to denounce anyone they want, so it doesn’t matter if you denounce them or someone else does, resisting is useless but if you do what they ask then the torture will end. Again, it comes down to the purpose of the torture. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Deity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@High\_Deity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Deity)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/47 "2003-06-16T17:49:13Z")
what about the classic “beat them with a monkey wrentch” or cut off their fingers with pipe cutters, or put their head in a vice grip (ala _Casino_ i believe)? ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/48 "2003-06-16T18:00:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stoyel \* > \*\*There’s always the ginger beer trick. \*\* O.K., I’ll bite. What’s the ginger beer trick? ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/49 "2003-06-16T20:35:58Z")
Have you ever tasted Ginger Beer? Blech. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/50 "2003-06-16T22:17:27Z")
IPCRESS ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847/51 "2003-06-16T22:57:14Z")
Actually this reminds of one of the most bizarre forms of torture ever conceived. During the Spanish Civil War the leftist side tried to use modern art as a form of torture: > [@](#): > > The cells, built in 1938 and reportedly hidden from foreign journalists who visited the makeshift jails on Vallmajor and Saragossa streets, were as inspired by ideas of geometric abstraction and surrealism as they were by avant garde art theories on the psychological properties of colours. > > Beds were placed at a 20 degree angle, making them near-impossible to sleep on, and the floors of the 6ft by 3ft cells was scattered with bricks and other geometric blocks to prevent prisoners from walking backwards and forwards, according to the account of Laurencic’s trial. > > The only option left to prisoners was staring at the walls, which were curved and covered with mind-altering patterns of cubes, squares, straight lines and spirals which utilised tricks of colour, perspective and scale to cause mental confusion and distress. > > Lighting effects gave the impression that the dizzying patterns on the wall were moving. > > A stone bench was similarly designed to send a prisoner sliding to the floor when he or she sat down, Mr Milicua said. Some cells were painted with tar so that they would warm up in the sun and produce asphyxiating heat. > > Laurencic told the military court that he had been commissioned to build the cells by an anarchist leader who had heard of similar ones used elsewhere in the republican zone during the civil war, possibly in Valencia. > **[Anarchists and the fine art of torture](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/27/spain.arts)** > > A Spanish art historian has uncovered what was alleged to be the first use of modern art as a deliberate form of torture, with the discovery that mind-bending prison cells were built by anarchist artists 65 years ago during the country's bloody civil... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-instruments-of-torture/181847.md?page=2)