# Modern Latin coinages **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 14, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160 "2003-02-14T21:50:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/1 "2003-02-14T21:50:08Z")
Or should that be _pecuniatica_? šŸ˜‰ In **bibliophage** ā€™s current [Staff Report](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlatinroot.html) on Latin roots, he includes a list of several modern additions to the Latin language. But some of them seem decidedly odd. For instance, English ā€œAutomobileā€ is from a combination of a Greek root with a Latin one. So what do we do to make it into a Latin word? Why, change it to two Greek roots, of course! The Latin equivalent to ā€œautocinetaā€ should be something more like ā€œipsemobilaā€, using the Latin roots for ā€œselfā€ (_ipse_, compare Greek _auto_) and ā€œmotionā€ (mobile, as opposed to kinetic). And even the validly Latin words certainly arenā€™t how a modern ancient Roman would refer to the concepts in question: Theyā€™re almost all too cumbersome. Referring to a ā€œ\* pellicula cinematographica obscena\*ā€, for instance, would be roughly analgous to a modern English speaker referring to a ā€œpornographic motion pictureā€. I donā€™t know what the Latin equivalent would be for, say, ā€œporn flickā€, which is how such a presentation would actually be described in modern language. On the other hand, I must say that _polybolum_ for machine gun is inspired: Literally, itā€™s something like ā€œmany projectilesā€, which is a pretty apt description of the device, and it rolls off the tongue quite nicely. On another note, Iā€™m surprised that bib didnā€™t mention ā€œheliocopteraā€. By tradition, the Pope blesses any vehicle he travels in beforehand, and the prayer to do so is, of course, in Latin. Well, the first time the Pontiff ever flew in a chopper, he was halfway through the prayer before he realized that there was no Latin word for such a contraption. So he just called it a ā€œheliocopteraā€ and went on with the prayer, and who was going to tell him he was wrong? ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/2 "2003-02-14T22:30:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*who was going to tell him he was wrong? \*\* hahaha Not me! šŸ™‚ Thanks for a very interesting topic. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/3 "2003-02-14T23:19:56Z")
Yeah, I was struck by how many of the multi-word coinages in Eggerā€™s dictionary were likely to prove unworkable in everyday speech. I expect that if there were a large enough community of Latin speakers, they would eventually settle on words that flow better. For ā€œporn flickā€, I might be so bold as to propose _obscaenae_ from _obscenae scaenae_ (obscene scenes). As for forming new words from Greek rather than Latin roots, Egger says in the dictionaryā€™s _prooemium_ (preface) that Latin roots are ā€œless apt than Greekā€ for forming new words in Latin. He doesnā€™t really explain why he thinks so, but there are plenty of words in Classical Latin that were formed from Greek roots, so itā€™s nothing new. I had a word for helicopter (_helicopterum_) in an early draft of the report, but I didnā€™t know the story about the Pope. Was that John Paul II, or an earlier Pope? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/4 "2003-02-15T02:47:33Z")
> [@](#): > > So he just called it a ā€œheliocopteraā€ and went on with the prayer, and who was going to tell him he was wrong? Is that cited in the _Apocrypha_?šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![cdhostage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@cdhostage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdhostage)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/5 "2003-02-15T16:50:23Z")
hmm, are giant whirling bladed machines male or female? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/6 "2003-02-16T18:17:59Z")
Most vehicles seem to be female, so itā€™s not unreasonable to suppose that helis are, too. Iā€™m going to have to find a cite for the Pope story; Iā€™m not sure which one it was. And **bib**? Did you have a context for ā€œheliocopterumā€, or was it just another word to throw into the mix? One of my Latin teachers, by the way, noted that ā€œheliocopteraā€ should probably have been ā€œ **s** eliocopteraā€, since the Romans usually converted ā€œhā€ to ā€œsā€ in Greek-rooted words (compare hex, sex (six), hemi, semi (half), helios, sol (sun)). ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/7 "2003-02-16T20:55:59Z")
I was interested in finding the Latin word for helicopter because when Eggerā€™s dictionary frist came out in the early 1990s, one of the fluff news reports about it stressed the odd fact that Latin has a word for helicopter. But over the years I had forgotten what the word was. When rewriting the report, I found that I had nothing really interesting to say about helicopters, so I deleted it. A lot of words that start with s- in Latin have cognates in Greek that start with an h sound (rough breathing), but thatā€™s due their common descent from PIE. Words that Latin borrowed directly from the Greek usually turned the rough breathing into an h: _harmonia, hecatombe, hippodromos, horoscopos, hyperbole_ ---
**Author:** ![cnoocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3d9bf3/32.png) [@cnoocy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cnoocy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/8 "2003-02-18T14:45:27Z")
Thereā€™s actually a few different ā€œLatineseā€ folks making up words for modern usage. Christian Helfer and Caelestis Eichenseer are two authors who have produced dictionaries with daily-use coinages, rather than the Vaticanā€™s more formal and exact style. ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/9 "2003-02-18T15:10:08Z")
All I want to say on this topic (sort of) is thanks for the ā€œWhen come backā€¦ā€ thing. Almost made me spit my coffee on the monitor. šŸ˜ƒ Seeing it in an ā€œofficial staff reportā€ makes it much funnier than it would ever be on the boardsā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/10 "2003-02-18T15:30:06Z")
And the pie reference wasnā€™t even forced. Good job, **bib**! Happy ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/11 "2003-02-18T17:05:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Linguists have a pretty good idea of what PIE was like, reconstructing it from the known languages that are descended from it. But Iā€™m sure theyā€™d like confirmation. So if you ever build a time machine that can take you back five thousands years, when come back bringā€“oh, never mind. Best. Use. Of. Cliche. **Ever**! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/12 "2003-02-18T18:08:18Z")
Actually, if you read the other thread on this Report, the pie comment actually was forced. bib wanted to take it out, but Evil Ed made him keep it. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/13 "2003-02-18T19:00:01Z")
Well, Iā€™m glad itā€™s appreciated. Maybe Ed was right after all. My concern was that non-regulars wouldnā€™t get it and even regulars might be scratching their heads about it in a year or so. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/14 "2003-02-18T19:20:55Z")
And hey, if we want to launch into any of the great PIE debates, we can always argue as to why the word for Pope means ā€œbridgemakerā€ā€¦ šŸ˜‰ (Iā€™m taking a course on PIE this quarter. Grimmā€™s law rocks my world.) ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/15 "2003-02-18T21:36:42Z")
On balance Iā€™m glad it was in there. I saw it (or something like it) coming from the very first acronymization of ā€œPIEā€ though. I liked the long buildup to get to it though. Very classy. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/16 "2003-02-19T11:11:03Z")
Wouldnā€™t ā€œhelicopterā€ in latin be something like **spirofyllum**. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/17 "2003-02-19T13:10:35Z")
While the PIE ā€œwhen come backā€ reference made me grin, it was a stupid old joke that caused me to chuckle out loud. > [@](#): > > ā€¦it helps to know a little Italian. (Or a big Italian, as long as he can translate) . Iā€™m pleased that elementary-school level humor hasnā€™t completely gone out of style. Nice report **bib**. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/18 "2003-02-19T21:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > And hey, if we want to launch into any of the great PIE debates, we can always argue as to why the word for Pope means ā€œbridgemakerā€ā€¦ Sorry, no PIE for you. ā€œPontifexā€ was originally a title for the Roman high priest, whose duties did, indeed, include the overseeing of construction of ceremonial bridges. When Christianity became the offical religion of Rome, the title just sort of transferred. Meanwhile, the word ā€œpopeā€ itself comes from roots for ā€œfatherā€. No bridges involved, there. ---
**Author:** ![Iustinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a587f6/32.png) [@Iustinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iustinus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/19 "2003-02-20T07:21:13Z")
Yes, there are several unofficial authorities who have published neo-Latin dictionaries. To name a few (in addition to Egger) thereā€™s a French one put out by the Fundatio Melissa (whose URL I seem to have misplaced), a German one put out by the _Societas Latina Saravipontana_ ( [http://www.uni-saarland.de/fak5/stockmann/voxlatina/](http://www.uni-saarland.de/fak5/stockmann/voxlatina/) ), and David Morgan of Furman University (_inter al._) is working on a very promising English one (I am seriously considering writing him to suggest that he add _saltatio bogudis_). Each of these dictionaries really represents a different source of Modern Latin. The various sources mostly get along, but tend to have different philosophies about how to coin words. The Vatican dictionary is notorious for using longwinded paraphrases in order to avoid inventing words out of wholecloth. This is a bit cumbersome, but really if you want to use such a term you only need to use the full form when youā€™re speaking without context. For example, you only need to say _pellicula cinematographica_ if you want to make sure that people know you mean a cinematographic film, as opposed to, say, film for your camera or an animal skin (which is what the word meant in Classical Latin). In most cases that actually come up, however, youā€™ll be understood if you just say _pellicula_. _Pellicula obscaena_ doesnā€™t sound nearly so cumbersomeā€¦ and you might even be able to get away with just _obscaena_ in certain contexts. Baseball is also always a problem because a huge percentage of neo-Latin materials come from Europe, where they donā€™t really give a flamingoā€™s tongue about Americaā€™s National Passtime. In fact, the German dictionary rather carelessly rendered the game as _pila bassa_, which only makes sense if you think the name refers to a base (as in ā€œo thou base cur!ā€) ball. Quidquid id est, o Caecili, bene (ut soles) respondisti. You might want to know about the scads of groovy Latin websites availible, or better yet the plethora of childrenā€™s books that have been published in Latin translationā€¦ but Iā€™m out of time. Justin [http://www.livejournal.com/~jdm314](http://www.livejournal.com/~jdm314) ---
**Author:** ![Iustinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a587f6/32.png) [@Iustinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iustinus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160/20 "2003-02-20T07:38:12Z")
For some reason I am incapable of editing that post I just made. This is frustrating, as I addressed the last paragraph to Cecil, and I now realize that he did not himself write this answer. For _o Caecili_ please read _o Bibliophage_ā€¦ and while youā€™re at it, please correct any other orthographic, grammitical, and stylistic errors I might have made šŸ˜‰ Justin [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-latin-coinages/155160.md?page=2)