# Modern Soldier VS Medieval Army (and a bonus scenario) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 31, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252 "2012-01-31T01:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/61 "2012-02-01T17:02:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Well, if me and my comrades are sitting in the HumVee and we see a guy from the future pop out of nowhere (you know he’s from the future because he’s wearing a silver jumpsuit) and before your buddy dissolves the future guy’s forehead glows red, then I’d pop a cap in his ass right away. He might get me, or someone else, but theres about 5000 more of us watching this, and everybody starts shooting this guy. When a bullet actually hits him, he’s down, 'cause he’s from the future, not magical. And since he’s killed our buds we waterboard him. Then we tie him up somewhere and take pictures of him before we kill him and fill out a report that says he died in a traffic accident. > > Your assumption is that soldiers are a bunch of pussies. I don’t think it works out that neatly. Akin to what I said before, maybe you get away with it, and maybe you get waterboarded before dying in a traffic accident. IF you see the guy from the future. There’s nothing more frustrating than not knowing where fire is coming from. And that’s if you _recognize_ what’s killing you as enemy fire. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/62 "2012-02-01T17:18:33Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I can’t fault your tactical judgment - but damn, man, what did those horses ever do to you? It’s not like they want to be there. They just want some nice grass, and maybe an apple or two. ☹ I got no cite for this, but didn’t the horses sometimes throw a few haymakers during battles? Seriously, a hoof to the chops from an excited warhorse would wreck you. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/63 "2012-02-01T17:22:34Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > the horses sometimes throw a few haymakers What you did, I saw it. Have you considered writing scripts for My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic? They love horse-related puns too. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/64 "2012-02-01T17:57:10Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > IF you see the guy from the future. There’s nothing more frustrating than not knowing where fire is coming from. And that’s if you _recognize_ what’s killing you as enemy fire. Agreed. It looks a lot more like magic if they don’t know where it’s coming from. But after they run away, what do you do next? Whatcha gonna eat? How many MREs did you bring with you? I don’t think the idea of Future Wizard power is going to get anyone very far. Bringing some communication devices, some gold, and some Bic lighters with you and contacting your allies will get you far more than simple weaponry, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/65 "2012-02-01T19:56:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > On the other hand, a post-firearm enemy at least understands what a gun is, and what it looks like when you’re hit by one, even if they can’t anticipate the actual range. A pre-firearm society will have absolutely no frame of reference. They’ll be walking along, and all of sudden, someone chest pops open in a gory mess. There’s no arrow, there’s no one in sight, there’s only a sharp noise, and someone starts bleeding explosively. And then it happens again. And again. After three or four of those, I think you’ve got a good chance of the entire force breaking and running in absolute panic. I’d be surprised if they even thought to look for a human cause. > > Actually, in that sort of situation, you might be able to stand down an entire army with just a pistol, if you do it right. Get a parley before battle, and say you’re willing to face their greatest warrior in single combat. You offer to fight him with no sword and no armor. He can bring whatever weapons he wants. Winner takes all. He shows up for the fight, you put a bullet between his eyes, and ask “Who’s next?” Sure, you’ve only got five or so more shots. But you’re also the only person on the battlefield who knows that. To everyone else, you’re the guy who can point at someone and make their head explode. Yes, that is why Hans Blunderbus was able to reign over most of Europe as soon as he invented his firearm. Gunpower and primitive firearms were known in Europe since around 1250. In fact, the grandson of Edward “the Longshanks” I, Edward III used them against the Scots. In reality, midevil battlefields were loud, crowded, confusing places. I doubt the introduction of a single deadly noisemaker would cause thousands of soldiers to suddenly panic. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/66 "2012-02-01T20:17:41Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > As per the OP, our time traveling soldier has picked sides in a battle which means he has an entire army on his side. All he has to do is enough damage to the enemy to give his side the advantage in a battle. He doesn’t even need to kill that many people just slow the enemy down and break their will to fight. A good comparison might be Cortes’ conquest of the Aztecs in 1519-21. A small number of troops wielding early handguns and advanced crossbows, combined with the overwhelming shock value of mounted knights, allowed the conquistadors’ native allies to take advantage of breaks in the Aztec lines. The conquistadors’ technological advantages weren’t enough to win a battle on their own, but they multiplied the force of the native allies enough to prove dominant on the battlefield. Consider a single Marine trying to stop a cavalry charge. He’ll never be able to kill all of the enemies, especially if they realize that he’s alone, or that he’s an unprotected target. However, if he’s mixed in with a group of foot soldiers, he’ll be able to help break cavalry charges by shooting the horses out from under the knights, causing a massive pile-up and weakening the charge enough that his allies will be able to kill the remainder easily. Likewise, if he can take some potshots at the enemies just before his own allies countercharge, the enemies will be in disarray, their carefully braced infantry formation weakened and disorderly, allowing his allies to break the enemy formation. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/67 "2012-02-01T21:00:49Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > What you did, I saw it. > > Have you considered writing scripts for My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic? They love horse-related puns too. Your dismissal hurts me in my heart. Pun aside it was a serious question. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/68 "2012-02-01T21:42:36Z")
Serious answer - yes, heavy knights on heavy horse would indeed simply run over the enemy lines if they could, trampling men under their hooves. The horses were weapon systems, with everything that implies. ---
**Author:** ![markz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@markz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/69 "2013-03-01T12:04:33Z")
I used to work in the glass trade, we used a lot of Kevlar & ballistic nylon, both worked well vs blade/cut & puncture impacts, so I would be of the belief contemporary armour would work, especially when ceramic plates get added. Also you don’t need to kill all your opponents, just enough to cause them to break. Also a lot of assumption on here says well once the modern troops run aut of ammo, they all say well thats us our of it then, as opposed to, right let’s do what must be done to win! ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/70 "2013-03-01T13:04:22Z")
Naturally a soldier equipped with the very latest weapons will defeat hordes of simple savages wielding spears. We are just so much cleverer than those we despise. No-one can outwit us. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/71 "2013-03-01T14:27:45Z")
> [@markz](#): > > I used to work in the glass trade, we used a lot of Kevlar & ballistic nylon, both worked well vs blade/cut & puncture impacts, so I would be of the belief contemporary armour would work, especially when ceramic plates get added. I doubt it. It’s not like medieval warriors were unfamiliar with the idea of body armour, and modern tests have shown that bodkin points could penetrate steel plate so it would most likely pass straight through a kevlar vest. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/72 "2013-03-01T21:58:26Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > I doubt it. It’s not like medieval warriors were unfamiliar with the idea of body armour, and modern tests have shown that bodkin points could penetrate steel plate so it would most likely pass straight through a kevlar vest. I doubt it would pass through ceramic inserts though. I wonder if a person wearing modern body armour be able to simply outlast a medieval opponent in a fight, I imagine it would be less tiresome to wear? It would probably be easier to move in as well. A ballistic vest weighs about a stone but its remarkable comfortable after you’ve been wearing it for a while, especially if its personal issue, and a stab-vest is much lighter again _(though ironically less comfortable)_. edited to add: it might be amusing to send the modern soldier in wearing full bomb-disposal gear, they’d get him eventually but it would be pretty intimidating at first! ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/73 "2013-03-01T23:07:30Z")
If I can ask two slighty-unrelated but still pertinent questions-how bullet-resistant would a knight be to an M16 or even just a sidearm? And what kind of damage would a cannon do to a tank? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/74 "2013-03-01T23:14:32Z")
This idea is explored in the short story [The Man Who Came Early](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Came_Early), about an American GI who is transported to Iceland Viking times. His modern ideas alienate him from his Norse hosts and his is eventually declared an outlaw. He runs out of ammunition - the sorcery fails him, as the Vikings see it - and he is put down after a brave last stand. ^ not very. If _Deadliest Warrior_ is anything to go by (and it isn’t), a pirate’s blunderbuss will go through plate mail, but modern ammunition would go though it like butter. As for a cannonball against Chobham armour? RPG-7s bounce off it! ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252/75 "2013-03-02T05:18:47Z")
After going back 750 years and mowing down the bad guys with a machine gun, I’d be worried about melting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-soldier-vs-medieval-army-and-a-bonus-scenario/611252.md?page=3)