# Modern Warfare 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 31, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835 "2009-10-31T12:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/41 "2009-11-10T12:57:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Right, because the game will be completely unplayable and unenjoyable and nobody will play it and it’ll completely wither on the vine. That’s much more likely, isn’t it? As a matter of fact, yes, it is, in terms of PC multiplayer. There are too many good shooter games out there that don’t have those crippling issues. What Senor Beef has been using this thread to rant about has really just encapsulated the pros & cons of the basic design models, which have been well-known since the very dawn of online gaming. He’s not exaggerating when he says there has never been a variation in outcomes when it comes to fast-paced action games. I have no dog in the fight - I got tired of pseudorealistic action shooter games years ago - but to argue that this isn’t going to have a big impact is simply coming from a position of inexperience. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/42 "2009-11-10T13:10:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m saying you don’t understand what you’re missing. You’re saying it won’t “be that bad” and I’m sure it won’t be, for you, because you’ve never experienced anything better. You can’t appreciate the loss of something you never had. > > As far as wither and die - it will probably have a small following. It is true that every single PC multiplayer shooter type game that has ever been released without dedicated servers has quickly died. A recent example is operation flashpoint 2 - it never had more than maybe 200 people playing online at any given time, compared to popular games with tens of thousands on. And it has probably since declined. And that’s for a game where the multiplayer allows pirates to play the game too - you can’t even get people to play the multiplayer for free. > > Gears of war and frontlines: fuel of war are two big titles recently that I recall died pretty much instantly due to the lack of dedicated servers. > > There has never been a successful competitive shooter on the PC that didn’t use this model. Every game that has tried this bullshit has died a quick death. MW2 may be popular enough that multiplayer isn’t completely dead, but I suspect that in 2 months you’ll find more players still playing COD4 than MW2. > > I didn’t say it would be completely unplayable and unenjoyable. But it will be a significant, pointless downgrade with no upside. It’s not like we have to wait long to see. The game is out now. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/43 "2009-11-10T13:19:02Z")
I may end up buying the game anyway, but I’m holding out to see what shakes out. I’ve been watching some live feeds of the multiplayer and it hasn’t been impressive, with random lagginess (putting a bunch of rounds in a guy’s chest and not registering sort of thing) and not infrequent server deaths requiring the player to find a new game. Oh, and going to a lobby between every map is obnoxious. Edit: But even if it’s good for what it is, going from anywhere from a max of 32 vs 32 to 6 vs 6 is clearly pretty lame. I didn’t often play gigantic 50+ player matches, although they were occasional crazy fun - but I did like playing 12 on 12 type games on big maps frequently. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/44 "2009-11-10T13:27:57Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I may end up buying the game anyway, but I’m holding out to see what shakes out. I’ve been watching some live feeds of the multiplayer and it hasn’t been impressive, with random lagginess (putting a bunch of rounds in a guy’s chest and not registering sort of thing) and not infrequent server deaths requiring the player to find a new game. Oh, and going to a lobby between every map is obnoxious. > > Edit: > But even if it’s good for what it is, going from anywhere from a max of 32 vs 32 to 6 vs 6 is clearly pretty lame. I didn’t often play gigantic 50+ player matches, although they were occasional crazy fun - but I did like playing 12 on 12 type games on big maps frequently. Of course you’re going to get it. Despite all the bitching and protestation, you’re still going to get the game. Don’t be afraid to actually like it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/45 "2009-11-10T13:37:47Z")
No, actually. I was going to get it - absolutely - on opening day, no question. Now I’m leaning towards not getting it. If this were the pit I would tell you where you could take those condescending assumptions about me. If I do end up getting it, it’ll be in part because my multiplayer experience will be well above average because I have a very good computer and internet connection, and I know how to properly set it up, so I will probably frequently be the server. It will suck less for me than the average person. If they announced they’d add dedi servers, I’d get it. My best hope now is actually that some homebrew hacker reverse engineers the cod4 dedi servers to work on mw2, so then at least someone could get a proper play experience. Even if I did get the game, it wouldn’t somehow prove me wrong. It’s clearly, unambiguously inferior to what it could be - it’s just a matter of whether it’s worth it despite the avoidable, intentional flaws. By the way, I didn’t intend for this thread to only be about the dedi server issue. Feel free to discuss general MW2 stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/46 "2009-11-10T13:50:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No, actually. I was going to get it - absolutely - on opening day, no question. Now I’m leaning towards not getting it. If this were the pit I would tell you where you could take those condescending assumptions about me. > > if I do end up getting it, it’ll be in part because my multiplayer experience will be well above average because I have a very good computer and internet connection, and I know how to properly set it up, so I will probably frequently be the server. It will suck less for me than the average person. > > If they announced they’d add dedi servers, I’d get it. > > My best hope now is actually that some homebrew hacker reverse engineers the cod4 dedi servers to work on mw2, so then at least someone could get a proper play experience. > > Even if I did get the game, it wouldn’t somehow prove me wrong. It’s clearly, unambiguously inferior to what it could be - it’s just a matter of whether it’s worth it despite the avoidable, intentional flaws. I don’t see them so much as “condescending” but “accurate”. This is a really big release. It’s been pumped up and been looked forward to for a while. Infinity Ward is a good game design studio. I think there’s a very low chance of them screwing it up so badly that it’s unplayable and that it drives folks away. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/47 "2009-11-10T14:09:15Z")
Ugh! My copy has been delayed until tomorrow, the online store I ordered from got every version but PC in time to ship for today. The reviews for the single player and spec-ops are good so that should be fun. Multiplayer won’t be the same but assuming matchmaking finds me other local players then it should be playable. At least the new kill streaks will be easy to get, with 12v12 I have to work to get 5 kills with 6v6 or smaller it’s very easy because there are fewer good players to catch you out. Noobs are going to get destroyed until people have played enough for IW.nets skill matching to have something to measure. ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/48 "2009-11-10T14:20:38Z")
Eh. I went from definite yes to maybe later to definite no. It’s console requirements forced on a PC platform that is capable of far more. It’s sorta like demanding that people eat McDonald’s after feeding them quality steak for years. Frankly, it’s insulting to offer a watered down of your product and try to tell me it’s good for me. I’m with Beef. If this game has a significant PC presence in 3 months, it’ll be contrary to every trend in the gaming industry over the past decade. That won’t actually bother IW much. They’ll probably use it as justification to stop developing for the PC platform and focus on the cash cows. Probably even blame piracy or something to help justify the decision. Happened before, will happen again. But they won’t get a penny from me. I’ll give my PC money to valve, gearbox, and bioware. And my 360/ps3 money won’t go to infinity ward either. There are a lot of options in the land of consoles. It won’t matter to them of course, and I don’t expect they would notice even if every single PC gamer refused to buy from them. But it does matter to me that I don’t support them in their efforts. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/49 "2009-11-10T14:50:43Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > I don’t see them so much as “condescending” but “accurate”. This is a really big release. It’s been pumped up and been looked forward to for a while. Infinity Ward is a good game design studio. I think there’s a very low chance of them screwing it up so badly that it’s unplayable and that it drives folks away. This will be among the best console games, so for your purposes, yes, it will be fine and good. You don’t seem to believe what I said in the OP about how big a downgrade peer to peer listen servers are. I didn’t say it would be unplayable, but that it drags the PC down to the console level to a significant degree. The model of multiplayer is inferior in pretty much every way - and very noticibly so. As for what I meant was condescending, it was telling me that I’m huffing and puffing but that I’ll ultimately cave in and buy it anyway. That’s inaccurate since I didn’t say I was boycotting it, so even if I did buy it anyway, I wouldn’t be going back on my word - but also you’re dismissing my claims not only as insignificant, but as something I know is insignificant and yet am getting worked up over anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/50 "2009-11-10T14:58:53Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This will be among the best console games, so for your purposes, yes, it will be fine and good. You don’t seem to believe what I said in the OP about how big a downgrade peer to peer listen servers are. I didn’t say it would be unplayable, but that it drags the PC down to the console level to a significant degree. The model of multiplayer is inferior in pretty much every way - and very noticibly so. > > As for what I meant was condescending, it was telling me that I’m huffing and puffing but that I’ll ultimately cave in and buy it anyway. That’s inaccurate since I didn’t say I was boycotting it, so even if I did buy it anyway, I wouldn’t be going back on my word - but also you’re dismissing my claims not only as insignificant, but as something I know is insignificant and yet am getting worked up over anyway. All I’m saying is that you should wait until it’s done. Personally, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised and it won’t be as bad as you’re making it out to be. It might be a step down from whatever you’re accustomed to (whatever that may even mean), but the quality will still be there. Nibb High football rules! ---
**Author:** ![DarkPrince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DarkPrince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkPrince)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/51 "2009-11-10T15:28:40Z")
> [@yendis](#): > > There are already example screen shots of exactly that error, Host Migration fails because of NAT settings. [http://i33.tinypic.com/288351h.jpg](http://i33.tinypic.com/288351h.jpg) Oh yeah, you can feel that Quality Gaming Experience™. [QUOTE=Roulette] Eh. I went from definite yes to maybe later to definite no. [/QUOTE] This. I’m somewhat amazed that only two or so weeks ago I would’ve dismissed anyone who told me I wouldn’t buy MW2. Now? Maybe when I see it in a bargain bin in six months. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/52 "2009-11-10T16:43:42Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > \ > On consoles, my understanding (I’ve never owned a shooter for consoles although I’ve played on other people’s systems) is that you basically hit “find multiplayer game” and it randomly plunks you down into a game, regardless of your preferences of game type, maps, rules, etc. > \ In the interest of fighting ignorance and what not, you’re also very wrong about this point. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/53 "2009-11-10T16:51:44Z")
Not very wrong. I just watched a live stream of the 360 multiplayer and that was the functionality, with the exception that you seem to be able to select preferred game type. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/54 "2009-11-10T17:14:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Not very wrong. I just watched a live stream of the 360 multiplayer and that was the functionality, with the exception that you seem to be able to select preferred game type. See, you’ve got your custom games and you’ve got your Matchmaking. With Matchmaking, you get into a Matchmaking hopper, corresponding to a playlist you want to play on. After that, it pushes you in with folks that you have a good connection to and are your equivalent rank. Then you play. With custom games, you send invites out, get people in, and tweak the game’s options to your liking, and then start the game. So, you have no influence over what map you get for Matchmaking (save for the one veto), and it’s based on the weighting of the developer. In custom games, you have folks starting up games with odd options, sending you invites seemingly at random from your Friends List. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/55 "2009-11-11T03:08:01Z")
[Whee lag](http://marius.webconexion.co.uk/dayone.png). I like the little bars instead of a ping number, it’s a nice touch. It implies that we’re too dumb to be able to interpret a simple ping number, so why not hide that info from us? Either that or they think we’d be angered by the actual ping numbers, so they give a generous range 4 green bars. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/56 "2009-11-11T03:34:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > [Whee lag](http://marius.webconexion.co.uk/dayone.png). I like the little bars instead of a ping number, it’s a nice touch. It implies that we’re too dumb to be able to interpret a simple ping number, so why not hide that info from us? > > Either that or they think we’d be angered by the actual ping numbers, so they give a generous range 4 green bars. Woof. Nice host. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/57 "2009-11-11T03:57:05Z")
Wow. What a bunch of bitches. Is someone going to start a thread where people can talk about the actual game? I’d like to hear about it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/58 "2009-11-11T03:58:04Z")
No one’s stopping you from posting something substantial. In fact I specifically encouraged it, but no one has bothered to post. Easier to bitch about bitching, aparently. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/59 "2009-11-11T04:23:46Z")
I need to ask a question (and I believe **Roulette** touched on this in an earlier post): Is the PC gaming market dead, dying or static compared to the console market? I have to assume the console games are the big profit-generators. So if any of this is true, is it really a surprise that even a supposed high-quality gaming studio like Infinity Ward would choose to essentially turn their backs on the PC market altogether in this economy, or is that a suicide move, or is it smart? I don’t know much about all this, but I REALLY liked COD4 both singleplayer and online (and had some fun with **SenorBeef** and others on here, too) and if the new game is as described, I probably will buy it, _never_ play it online and simply hope that the singleplayer version is a hell of a lot longer than the woefully short one on COD4. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/60 "2009-11-11T04:40:09Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Wow. What a bunch of bitches. > > Is someone going to start a thread where people can talk about the actual game? I’d like to hear about it. It’s Call of Duty. I haven’t played the campaign, but it all plays the same. There’s a shitload of stuff to unlock this time around, increased levels of perks, the ability to pick your killstreak rewards and what not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835.md?page=4)