# Modern Whigs-A Party of Sanity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884 "2011-04-18T22:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/1 "2011-04-18T22:00:02Z")
With political rhetoric and situation becomely increasingly inane (ie Trump running for President, vicious attacks by Democrats against Republicans on Planned-Parenthood funding etc.) might the Modern Whig Party be an attractive place for the “Establishment” Republicans, working-class Democrats, Libertarians, and Independents? What do you think of their agenda? [http://www.modernwhig.info/](http://www.modernwhig.info/) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/2 "2011-04-18T22:14:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > vicious attacks by Democrats against Republicans on Planned-Parenthood funding etc. Whaaaaaaa? As for yout OP, it would behoove you to flesh out the modern Whig party positions in your post as opposed making us do homework. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/3 "2011-04-18T22:22:36Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Whaaaaaaa? > > As for yout OP, it would behoove you to flesh out the modern Whig party positions in your post as opposed making us do homework. In his defense, the Modern Whig Party doesn’t seem to have any positions. Here’s their official party philosophy: > [@](#): > > Our focus is not on ideology, its on what is most effective. We have our principles which we hold firm to. Where we are pragmatic is in the solutions to those principles. We focus on on what we like, or what you like but what works best and the most effective solutions. Whigs believe that this is what public service is all about. > > Pragmatic, balanced and non-ideological approach to public policy puts the American people first. > > Solutions-oriented, methodological yet flexible in approach towards ‘centrist’ policy proposals. > > Greater citizen participation in the formation of public policy. Highly informed citizens is the new normal. > > Focus on core issues that affect all Americans as a whole, not just one group or a few special interest issues. > > Freedom of political thought and action, not stuck on ideology. > > Historical political truths are replaced by new truths and realities as citizens participate without prior bias using only modern Whig and basic Constitutional guidelines. > > Therefore the Whigs are not a traditional political party, nor do we have a traditional party platform. We believe that traditional solutions will remain ineffective. > > Whigs practice independent thought, stress citizen participation, want the curtailment of lobby interests, a review of electoral methods, all to ensure a healthy Republic . > > The Whig philosophy is a philosophy that stresses method, and seeks to refine or rebuild the methodologies of our representation. Does any of that mean anything? It’s so content-free it could encompass any position from balancing the budget to nationalizing all private property to rounding up the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/4 "2011-04-18T22:38:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …the Modern Whig Party doesn’t seem to have any positions…Does any of that mean anything? It’s so content-free it could encompass any position from balancing the budget to nationalizing all private property to rounding up the Jews. In reading through their website, that struck me too. They don’t seem to be committing to much of anything. There is some value to a lack of dogma…gad knows the two major parties could do with a little less partisan dogma, but I personally would want to know a few more specifics before I voted for one of 'em. They don’t seem to have any kind of environmental platform, for example, other than a vague approval of alternative energy. They hardly address labor issues at all. On the other hand, they do have the cajones to oppose business monopolies, which neither of the major parties have. And their approach to immigration seems to have some merit. I don’t think it would be a bad thing to have a centrist third party… the “minor parties” in existance now, the Libertarians, Greens, constitutionalists, etc are mostly on the fringe, and consequently don’t get much attention. If the Modern Whigs can flesh out their platform satisfactorily, they might stand a chance of becoming contender. SS ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/5 "2011-04-18T22:47:51Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Whaaaaaaa? He’s presumably talking about the idiot who, from what I saw, used the phrase “Show me your papers” (comparing the Republicans to Nazis oppressing the Jews) because they had the gall to say that if you wanted reimbursement from the government, you had to keep the documentation that proved you were eligible. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/6 "2011-04-18T23:00:19Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > He’s presumably talking about the idiot who, from what I saw, used the phrase “Show me your papers” (comparing the Republicans to Nazis oppressing the Jews) because they had the gall to say that if you wanted reimbursement from the government, you had to keep the documentation that proved you were eligible. This. And a lot of the platform it seems to me, is delibrately designed not to be too specific, because they believe many issues should be handled by the states, according to their situations. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/7 "2011-04-18T23:07:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In his defense, the Modern Whig Party doesn’t seem to have any positions. Here’s their official party philosophy: Check “Whig solutions”. They seem to want the following: 1. Fed grants to states be given in a lump sum based on population. 2. Pulling forces out of Iraq except of Kurdistan, with a force there to protect the Kurds, paid for by Kurdish oil revenue. 3. Further dialog with Pakistan to end the “terrorist safe haven in their country, but if they don’t act we will”. 4. More funding for green technology and research 5. Banning oil companies from owning other energy resources 6. More funding for clean coal technology 7. Adopt the Pickens Plan 8. Allow citizenship to illegal immigrants if they serve in the military 9. Establishing ad-hoc immigration courts to relieve the backlog in our current immigration court. 10. Offer tax breaks and subsidies to companies that move their plants out of China, and into either the US or other poor countries that need an economic boost. Along with that, cut direct foreign aid funding 11. Government shouldn’t fund religious activities, but it also shouldn’t prevent private religious symbols on city hall property. 12. Same sex marriage recognition to be left up to the states. A federal hate crimes law dealing with sexual orientation 13. Birth control should be covered by health care plans 14. States can regulate firearms, but such regulation should be reasonable, and not too costly or otherwise prohibitive. 15. Abortion policy should be left up to the states. States should provide additional funding for adoption, safe haven laws and other abortion alternatives. 16. End race based affirmative action. Replace it with an economically based system 17 Increase space and ocean exploration, and also open such exploration to private businesses. I agree with some of their ideas, and not others, but they do have positions on issues. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/8 "2011-04-18T23:16:04Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > vicious attacks by Democrats against Republicans on Planned-Parenthood funding etc. You mean, like, calling out John Kyl for lying about it? > [@](#): > > What do you think of their agenda? I’m in favor of them having one. I’ll let you know what I think of it when they do. There are some specific policy goals if you dig a bit deeper, by the way: [QUOTE=Modern Whig Party] …we propose that federal tax dollars be provided to each state in a lump sum every fiscal year based on population. [/QUOTE] Have to see more on this before rendering judgment. > [@](#): > > We propose pulling our forces out of Iraq except for a relatively small base in the Kurdish area of the country. Meh. > [@](#): > > At the turn of the 20th Century, Teddy Roosevelt broke up the monopolies that stifled small business and economic growth. Now is the time to bust up the oil companies. These companies are designed, as they should be, to make money for their shareholders. We support this… > > …Believe it or not, clean coal technology exists and if permitted to grow, West Virginia and Southeast Ohio will become the engine of the world. In addition, we support a focus on natural gas, wind and solar power as outlined and paid for in the Pickens’s Plan. They had me until “clean coal”. > [@](#): > > We propose the following: Offer illegal immigrants the opportunity for citizenship if they join the military and serve out their initial contractual term honorably. This system already is in use for green card holders and has proven to be an absolute success. In fact, much of this proposal is based off of the highly applauded current framework. The illegal immigrants will not be entitled to jobs that require security clearances, but will be eligible for the GI Bill, Tricare and all other benefits afforded to US service members who serve honorably. This program also will include a background check and English-language classes if necessary. Interesting. > [@](#): > > In respect to the orderly deportation of other illegal immigrants, we propose the following: A creation of ad-hoc immigration courts. Essentially, highly regarded immigration lawyers in varying parts of the country will be nominated and selected to serve as immigration judges. When a suspected illegal immigrant is caught, an ad-hoc court can quickly be convened in order to ensure fair proceedings. :dubious: > [@](#): > > The Modern Whig Party proposes offering tiered subsidies and tax breaks to U.S. corporations who remove their manufacturing operations from China… > > …We can then steer our corporations to creating jobs in other places such as the West Bank, Iraq and Latin America. The… West Bank? Really? > [@](#): > > …the business of forcing Christmas trees and reindeer ornaments off of city hall property is ridiculous. At the same time, government cannot favor one religion over others. So long as all other religions have equal access to display their holiday symbols, we see no problems. I see several. > [@](#): > > Each state can determine the extended rights of same sex couples based on their own local values. We do, however, support classifying as a federal hate crime attacks on people based on their perceived sexual orientation. In essence, the sexual orientation of the guy down the street has no bearing on anybody else’s life. All for this. > [@](#): > > Recognizing that Viagra is sometimes prescribed to men for other medical reasons such as diabetes and covered by many health plans regardless of the reason, we find it unacceptable that birth control is typically not covered for women. This too. > [@](#): > > Our general viewpoint is that states can regulate firearms to whatever their local values dictate, but these regulations must be reasonable and can’t be too costly or otherwise prohibitive to a point where it would violate the constitutional right. Sure, why not? > [@](#): > > Each state can determine its course of action [on abortion] like any other public health issue that revolves around medical procedures. Uh, that ship has sailed, my friends. ETA: Damn you, **Captain**! ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/9 "2011-04-19T00:29:22Z")
I don’t agree with them on many things, particularly the whole ‘clean coal’ nonsense, but if they can get all the non-Teabaggers from the GOP on their side they will have done something worthwhile and should be able to win elections. If they can do that, they deserve to replace the GOP and let the Republican party wither to a core constituency of lunatics. I don’t think that will actually happen but it’s nice to dream sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/10 "2011-04-19T00:39:18Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > … particularly the whole ‘clean coal’ nonsense, … Well, they’ve blown that. The cleanest (not clean) coal is currently coming from the west, particularly in Wyoming. West Virginia coal is currently (due to its high BTU) becoming best suited for metalugical coal, and even there the expense of mining it is becoming hard for the market to bear. West Virginia is coming close to being mined out. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/11 "2011-04-19T00:44:16Z")
> [@](#): > > In respect to the orderly deportation of other illegal immigrants, we propose the following: A creation of ad-hoc immigration courts. Essentially, highly regarded immigration lawyers in varying parts of the country will be nominated and selected to serve as immigration judges. When a suspected illegal immigrant is caught, an ad-hoc court can quickly be convened in order to ensure fair proceedings. Without knowing what definition they’re using for ad-hoc, I can’t tell whether this is impossible or redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/12 "2011-04-19T02:09:30Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Without knowing what definition they’re using for ad-hoc, I can’t tell whether this is impossible or redundant. Yeah, this is another thing I don’t agree with them on. Regardless of what they mean, justice is served by established procedures and precedent, not ad-hoc courts, regardless of how expedient they may be. Ultimately, the problem with ad-hoc systems is the same thing that makes them so attractive: They aren’t bound to any specific system, not even the one they used last time. This can be a source of wonderful decisions tailored precisely to the individual fact pattern or it can be a forum for motiveless hatred, irrational prejudice, and simple bigotry unrestrained by the rules and formality of normal courtrooms. There’s a reason we moved away from ad-hoc systems of justice in the middle ages. Offering illegals citizenship for military service is a thing I’m very conflicted about. It sounds like something the Romans did and I’m not certain if that should recommend it to me or warn me away from it. On one hand, it sounds like a way to filter the pool of illegals for the ones who are capable of functioning in the military, which has some correlation to functioning in the real world, and it puts them in an environment where they will get the basics taken care of in addition to any language and cultural training they may need. On the other, politicians do not need to be tempted by a pool of people who can not vote but are available to fight in any war the politicians can come up with, and I’m not certain if excluding all the illegals who won’t or can’t do military service is going to get us the best and the brightest of that group. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/13 "2011-04-19T02:24:58Z")
[Here’s](http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm) the [Politics1.com](http://Politics1.com) blurb, FWIW: > [@](#): > > MODERN WHIG PARTY - Seizing the name of the long dead Whig Party (1833-1856) of Presidents Zachary Taylor, John Tyler and Millard Fillmore, this new Modern Whig Party was launched in 2008. Nearly all of the party founders and state chairs are Iraq/Afghan War veterans. These new Whigs explain themselves as follows: “We represent moderate voters from all walks of life who cherry-pick between traditional Democratic and Republican ideals in what has been called the Modern Whig Philosophy. This includes general principles of fiscal responsibility, strong national defense and bold social progression.” They are centrists – vaguely claiming they have “tens of thousands of members” – who support a strong military, energy independence, increased funding of the sciences and education, more spending on veterans and veteran families, and oppose legislating morality. The party has established state party affiliates around the nation and already fielded a few candidates for Congress and state legislature. And [Wiki sez:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Whig_Party) > [@](#): > > According to The News & Observer: “The national Modern Whig Party, as it calls itself, was started in the most unlikely of locations—the deserts of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan by U.S. troops.”[7] The Modern Whig Party was organized as a grassroots movement in the beginning of 2008 as a national successor to the historical Whig Party (the Florida Whig Party was created two years earlier with a similar goal at the state level but is not affiliated in any way).[8][9] Among the national Modern Whig Party’s founding members were military veterans who had served in Afghanistan and Iraq and become dissatisfied with the deep ideological divide between the Republican and Democratic parties.[10] Other media outlets have touted the Modern Whig Party’s moderate platform and its viable appeal during a time of ideological fragmentation within the Republican and Democratic parties.[11] Sorry, guys, but a third-party movement can’t catch fire just on the message, “We’re not the other guys!” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/14 "2011-04-19T13:30:00Z")
Note that the Florida Whig Party _was_ affiliated with the Modern Whig Party, but split off in 2009 because the Florida Whig Party is populated by the usual third party right wing fringe types. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/15 "2011-04-19T14:00:05Z")
There’s something to be said for a party that governs rather than focusing on ideology, but that’s not going to catch on as long as people respond primarily to the ideological stuff. And the ideological stuff is important in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/16 "2011-04-19T14:34:05Z")
Is that going to be Donald Trump’s party? Oh… W_ **h** _ig. Never mind… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/17 "2011-04-19T16:00:25Z")
That’s just what America needs, another party that thinks a stronger military is the answer to your problems. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/18 "2011-04-19T16:44:59Z")
The “strong military” stuff doesn’t actually appear in any of their own literature, as far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/19 "2011-04-19T16:45:55Z")
I went to the site linked in the OP with the idea of joining/participating/contributing, but the more of the site I saw, the more I realized that - media-wise, these guys are not ready for prime time: typos/grammar errors; links that seem to go to otherwise-unrelated sites that have some sort of IP masking (the “register as a Whig” page); a lot of “coming soon” notations but with a site-wide copyright of 2008; a forum that is off-site on a generic forums host. All of these things scream “amateurs”, and a “news” item gap of October 2010 to April 2011 does not indicate an active organization. I’m all for grass-roots amateur activism, but you need more horsepower than this to launch a viable party. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884/20 "2011-04-19T16:53:44Z")
So join up and hijack the thing. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-whigs-a-party-of-sanity/578884.md?page=2)