# Mods: still incredibly bad at spotting trolls **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 2, 2018, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882 "2018-11-02T09:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/61 "2018-11-03T01:21:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Okay, let’s talk about this in ATMB. > > In [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21299315#post21299315), there is at least one poster who is _blatantly trolling_. They are not discussing in good faith. Their argument is not intended to further discussion but rather to sidetrack it in an incredibly dumb, dishonest way. It is insane troll logic at its finest. > > And they _keep on doing this_. This facile non-argument has been their sole response to _any_ discussion of this topic for quite some time. Anyone who’s had the displeasure of encountering this person in a thread about climate change has seen basically exactly that post - the exact same post he made 16 fucking times in one thread, regardless of who challenged him. > > I reported this. Then, when that apparently did absolutely nothing, I asked the other posters in the thread to please stop engaging the person who is obviously trolling and arguing in bad faith unless he’ll do the absolute base minimum to establish that he has any intention in this thread beyond doing exactly that. Then _I_ get told off. > > Well let’s be really clear here. This guy is a troll. He’s not subtle. In fact, he’s _incredibly blatant_ about it, in the way he keeps doing the exact same thing over and over again - you can find this exact same bullshit non-argument in threads about global warming [going back years](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18888733&postcount=519). > > So the mods are really bad at spotting trolls. What’s more, it’s unacceptable to: > > [ul] > [li]Call a troll a troll[/li][li]Ask people to stop feeding the troll[/li][li]Ask the troll to leave the thread if he won’t show he’s arguing in good faith[/li][/ul] > > This is a bad combination. It means it’s basically just trivial for bad-faith actors to come in and disrupt any conversation they want. > > And no, _the ignore list does not help_. Unless there’s general consensus that the person is a troll and he’s ignored by basically everyone (in which case _why haven’t you guys cottoned on?_), chances are good the thread is still going to be sidetracked, because that’s, ultimately, the goal of trolling. It’s to disrupt the discussion. And “say something stupid that people want to respond to” is trolling 101. An ignore list _does not help against a troll_. Case in point, a quote from someone I’d rather not put on my ignore list: > > Just FYI, _that doesn’t help_. You’re still feeding the troll. You’re still dragging the thread off-topic. You’re still letting him [control the conversation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPgDQkmqqM&t=9s) and [never play defense](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA). > > I think it’s trivial for any person here to look at that thread and notice that a certain someone is not arguing in good faith, keeps repeating the same nonsensical bad-faith argument, and refuses to engage with actual questions. It’s really frustrating to deal with. Can we do something about this? someone isn’t “trolling” just because they disagree with you and won’t change their mind. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/62 "2018-11-03T02:22:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Mods: still incredibly bad at spotting trolls > > It’s true and it’s the point. …over at the old Randi forums (now the International Skeptics Forum) they’ve had a long standing policy of not policing trolling. Because the line between trolling and “having a bad opinion” is so incredibly thin, and reliant on the subjective opinion of the moderators. So to claim that its “true” that the moderators are still “incredibly bad at spotting trolls” is a claim that need a much higher bar of proof than has been offered so far in this thread. I don’t think the moderators do that bad a job here policing trolls. You’ve offered a definition here: > [@](#): > > Their posts can be seen in any forum and on any of a million subjects, but they are connected by a common form. An absurd, or non-factual, or demeaning assertion is made. Calls for a cite are ignored. Direct questions are left unanswered. A return to the beginning is made when seemingly cornered. The dead giveaway is that the same assertion, usually in the same words, is made 6, 12, 20 times. But the behaviour you describe isn’t trolling. Its behaviour I see all the time from people that _I agree with._ Trolling requires a couple of specific qualities: > [@](#): > > In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet **to distract and sow discord** by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) **with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses** [2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll’s amusement or a specific gain. > **[Troll (slang)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)** > > In slang, a troll is a person who posts deliberately offensive or provocative messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, an online video game) or who performs similar behaviors in real life. The methods and motivations of trolls can range from benign to sadistic. These messages can be inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic, and may have the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perc In t... Most accepted definitions of trolling require one specific element: **intent**. Without intent, it isn’t trolling. How do you determine intent? Well it isn’t easy. Its very easy to spot “trollish behaviour.” But are they doing it with the intent to so discord and provoke emotional responses? The OP doesn’t make a case that the poster he is accusing of trolling has done that at all, and neither has anyone else in the thread. I would suggest to you that it “isn’t true” the mods are incredibly bad at spotting trolls. I think it is true that there are some posters who want to redefine what a troll actually is. If you are one of those posters: then perhaps you could help us all out by coming up with a more precise definition than the one that I quoted from you earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/63 "2018-11-03T02:32:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No, it wasn’t “exactly the same.” **Jonathan Chance’s** post was intended as constructive criticism. **Fenris’s** post was deliberately exaggerated in a way to bring ridicule on **BigT** (“stomach-churning fury”?). And I think that the remark about “taking a pill” was a deliberate jab implying that **BigT** requires medication. That post was suitable for the Pit, and no other forum on this board. Even if it was intended as sarcasm, it was way out of line. Actually the “take a pill” thing was a line that my friends and I use; it’s from an old Peanuts cartoon [![](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/peanuts/images/3/3e/19640107.gif/revision/latest?cb=20131024021556) ](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/peanuts/images/3/3e/19640107.gif/revision/latest?cb=20131024021556) Granted, I made an (obviously wrong) assumption that everyone used a phrase my friends and I use from one obscure comic strip from 1964 :)–and I grant that was dumb on my part, but it was _not_ intended as a jab. Any time one of us gets…I’m gonna use the word “pissy” with the statement that I’m applying it only to myself and my friends…pissy, someone else will give that smug Linus gives Lucy and say “Why don’t you take a pill?” And the stomach churning fury is pretty much his own words > [@BigT](#): > > I have never been this mad in my entire life. I have never been mad for however many hours this had been, and I’ve never had my chest hurt because of anger. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12463142&postcount=9](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12463142&postcount=9) Ok, he said chest, not stomach, but same difference and it was the same sort of anti-mod anger he was showing above… I was trying for the same tone as JC. It was deliberately exaggerated, that being the key component of humor. I don’t expect (although I’d be pleasantly surprised) to have the warning reversed, but there are assumptions in your warning that are flat-out wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/64 "2018-11-03T02:46:37Z")
The correct URL for the comic in question is: [![](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/peanuts/images/2/23/19640106.gif) ](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/peanuts/images/2/23/19640106.gif) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/65 "2018-11-03T02:53:54Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The correct URL for the comic in question is: > [https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/peanuts/images/2/23/19640106.gif](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/peanuts/images/2/23/19640106.gif) FWIW, “take a chill pill” or “take a pill” is something we’ve said for decades when someone was being over the top. We never used it for any deeper meaning than that. However, probably don’t need to dig up BigT’s past in this thread. May be better for an offline conversation with Colibri. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/66 "2018-11-03T02:58:06Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But the behaviour you describe isn’t trolling. Which is why I called that behavior pattern threadshitting. It may be trolling or it may be aggravated ignorance. Either way it derails threads, which is the definition of threadshitting. It is \*also \*true that the mods let trolls live for far too long. Amazingly, two things can be both be true at the same time. Clothahump and Starving Artist were called out as trolls years before they got banned for reasons other than their political beliefs. I, as many others have also expressed, am of the opinion that they they overstayed because the mods bent over backward to avoid being accused of political favoritism. All that did was annoy virtually everyone else here. I could bold some of the phrases in your quoted definition of trolls in response, but why bother? You can go off and have a nice rousing meeting with yourself splitting hairs about definitions of trolls to your heart’s content. All that’s really necessary is to recognize that their behavior is jerkish. There’s already a rule about being a jerk. It isn’t applied often enough. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/67 "2018-11-03T03:02:31Z")
Threadshitting is not derailing a thread. Threadshitting is posting that the topic of the thread is stupid and why would anyone want to do/watch/discuss etc the topic. Someone can threadshit and not have a single response and it’s still a threadshit. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/68 "2018-11-03T03:08:24Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Actually the “take a pill” thing was a line that my friends and I use; it’s from an old Peanuts cartoon Jeez. You’re not Seth, are you? I was just reading a piece by him in which he makes that same description. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/69 "2018-11-03T03:13:41Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Jeez. You’re not Seth, are you? I was just reading a piece by him in which he makes that same description. Who’s Seth and am I now officially old for not recognizing him? 🙂 In any case, no–I just collected the old Peanuts collections and Linus’s incredibly smug expression in the third panel always cracked me up, so I scanned it and printed it on some nice 11x17 cardstock and hung it on my wall for years. Peanuts cartoons are brilliant but rarely laugh-out-loud funny. This is a rare exception ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/70 "2018-11-03T03:41:52Z")
Seth is a cartoonist. Most famous in the 80s and 90s so no, you’re not old. You’re merely weak on alternative comics from 30 years ago. Seth did Mister X, Palookaville and he’s the guy who did the design for Fantagraphics release of ‘Complete Peanuts’. I was just - yesterday - reading his graphic novel ‘It’s a Good Life If You Don’t Weaken’ (he’s a cheerful sort) and he quoted the exact same Peanuts comic in it. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/71 "2018-11-03T04:27:56Z")
Mister X? That weird art-decco-ish comic about the bald guy with round sunglasses in that weird city? I _loved_ that book. I do know him and he’s a genius. I didn’t know he was still around ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/72 "2018-11-03T07:12:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Which is why I called that behavior pattern threadshitting. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Read the thread title. > > Mods: still incredibly bad at spotting trolls > > It’s true and it’s the point. …so on what basis are you claiming that it is true “the mods are incredibly bad at spotting trolls?” Is it that mods aren’t addressing “behavior pattern threadshitting?” Because they are two different things. > [@](#): > > It is \*also \*true that the mods let trolls live for far too long. Amazingly, two things can be both be true at the same time. Clothahump and Starving Artist were called out as trolls years before they got banned for reasons other than their political beliefs. I, as many others have also expressed, am of the opinion that they they overstayed because the mods bent over backward to avoid being accused of political favoritism. All that did was annoy virtually everyone else here. I don’t think the mods bent over backwards at all to the motivations you ascribe to them. Outside of political discussion both Clothahump and Starving Artist were pretty ordinary posters. I’m one of the few who could have civil conversations with Starving over political issues. Here was our last [interaction](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21228431#post21228431). I disagreed with pretty much every political opinion Starving had. And over the last few months Starving said some things that really upset and dismayed me. I agree that Starving very much crossed the line and deserved his banning. But I don’t think the mods were remiss in the way that they dealt with him in the past. > [@](#): > > I could bold some of the phrases in your quoted definition of trolls in response, but why bother? You can go off and have a nice rousing meeting with yourself splitting hairs about definitions of trolls to your heart’s content. All that’s really necessary is to recognize that their behavior is jerkish. There’s already a rule about being a jerk. It isn’t applied often enough. If you are going to be accusing people of trolling then the definition of trolling is important. And nearly every definition I’ve ever seen used require intent. You concede you aren’t talking about “trolling” but are talking about “behavior pattern threadshitting”. Now you are talking about “being a jerk.” Which of the three are you accusing the mods of “still incredibly bad at spotting?” You seem to be conflating “troll”, “jerk” and “threadshitting.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/73 "2018-11-03T13:22:52Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Which is why I called that behavior pattern threadshitting. It may be trolling or it may be aggravated ignorance. Either way it derails threads, which is the definition of threadshitting. Seriously, where are you getting that definition? Threadshitting is usually a one-off post along the lines of “this is a stupid tread and no one should even be discussing it”. And there is no rule against “aggravated ignorance”, so if you think it may be that, then you are already admitting that no rules are broken. Honestly, what you seem to want is for the mods to force a poster to tap out (to use a combat sport term), but it’s been made explicitly clear that they do not accept that as a proper role for moderators. I’m good with that. If they tried to be arbiters of truth, we’d be in endless ATMB threads about political bias. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/74 "2018-11-03T14:06:15Z")
What it comes down to is that a few posters are terrified of seeing any opinion that doesn’t 100% agree with their point of view and need to be protected like snowflakes.\* The _vast_ majority of liberal posters here seem to enjoy the challenge of an opposing viewpoint and understand that dialogue is boring in an echo chamber. I don’t post a lot in the political threads, but I read 'em and a number of my liberal brothers and sisters have made me stop and think. To whatever degree our votes count, I vote for allowing more opinions, not less. \*Yes, it’s a cliche, but the way those few posters (who may or may not be involved in this thread) whine incessantly about how scary alternate viewpoints are, it’s apt. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/75 "2018-11-03T14:44:13Z")
The great strength of SDMB is that speech is nearly entirely free. We have a few forbidden topics, and require some minimal manners. But other than that it is free. I don’t understand why anyone would want to restrict this in any way. The fact that the moderators are hesitant and deliberate in labeling a troll is an asset, to be cherished- and by no means a failure. Also, I am disturbed by the celebration of certain bannings. No matter how justified the banning, I think it’s wrong to celebrate. And I find the calling for banning repugnant. It is a Mod decision after deliberate review to ban or not ban. Calling for it is a little like the lynch mob outside the sherriff’s office wanting to hang the horse thief. Maybe the horse thief needs to hang, but we have a system to determine that. And it isn’t by popular demand. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/76 "2018-11-03T14:49:10Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > What it comes down to is that a few posters are terrified of seeing any opinion that doesn’t 100% agree with their point of view and need to be protected like snowflakes.\* > > The _vast_ majority of liberal posters here seem to enjoy the challenge of an opposing viewpoint and understand that dialogue is boring in an echo chamber. > > I don’t post a lot in the political threads, but I read 'em and a number of my liberal brothers and sisters have made me stop and think. > > To whatever degree our votes count, I vote for allowing more opinions, not less. So why _did_ we ban, to pull one example out of a hat, that guy who had some rather _interesting_ opinions on rape and feminism… **Hungry Musician** or something was his name? I mean, technically speaking, he never actually broke any rules by arguing that any woman who disagreed with him was brainwashed by victimhood mentality. That’s his opinion, he can have it, why should anyone else care? And similarly, why should it matter that there are certain posters where you can track a thread going to shit pretty well by the number of posts they make in it? So what if their opinions are painfully stupid and they refuse to have anything resembling an honest debate about it for years at a time? That’s _their opinion_, and they should have it. Naw, y’know where you can _really_ find any opinion? /pol/. And there’s a reason I come here instead. > [@](#): > > \*Yes, it’s a cliche, but the way those few posters (who may or may not be involved in this thread) whine incessantly about how scary alternate viewpoints are, it’s apt. Care to bring up some specific examples? 🙂 Because I have yet to see a single case of this. I’ve seen complaints about posters whose opinions run just shy of hate speech. I’ve seen complaints about posters who are indistinguishable from actual trolls in most regards\*. I’ve seen complaints about the general tone of the board, because people (mostly women) look at these “alternate viewpoints” (read: extreme casual misogyny) and feel uncomfortable, unsafe, or unwelcome in an environment where they’re tolerated. I have yet to see anyone whine about “alternate viewpoints”. \*(Seriously, if you think my problem with, say, **Clothahump** was that he held “alternate viewpoints”… No, that’s not my problem with him. Rather, the problem was that in any given thread, if he shows up, the best case scenario was that people ignored what he said, rather than trying to start a discussion with someone who, as **Not Carlson** showed quite conclusively, is unwilling or unable to actually discuss.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/77 "2018-11-03T15:19:59Z")
The “usual suspects” are not a problem because their opinions, as wrong I think they are. The problem is the shear volume. They see every thread they participate in as a discussion with them personally. (SA was especially so, he felt the need to report he was going to bed and shit like that) I would support a limit to how much a poster can post in a thread (2.5% or once every page sounds about right) ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/78 "2018-11-03T15:56:20Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I would support a limit to how much a poster can post in a thread (2.5% or once every page sounds about right) Would that apply to only “trollish” posts? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/79 "2018-11-03T16:04:50Z")
[quote=“Bone, post:49, topic:823882”] No. This practice you engage in of saying, ‘when you say X, you are saying Y’ doesn’t work. The reason it doesn’t work is because your interpretation is whack. Saying calm down is not equivalent to ignoring what someone is saying. Saying calm down doesn’t invalidate anything. There is no accusation of someone being a bad person. There is no implication that anyone is lying or being deceitful. All of these are conclusions you have drawn, that saying X means saying Y - they are completely unsupported and make no sense./QUOTE] I am simply stating things that are true. If he is saying someone is trolling, but really thinks the problem is merely that they disagree, then he is lying. And if you accuse him of saying one thing while meaning another, then you are accusing him of lying. BPC was not merely accused of making a mistake on who is a troll. He was flat out accused of, in Jonathan Chance’s own words “ **You’re also in the habit of telling us - via reports - we should ban posters with whom you disagree as trolls** ” So I have Jonathan Chance’s _exact words_ accusing **BPC** saying people should be banned as trolls for disagreeing with him. As for “calm down,” you are doing it in this very thread. In this thread, the purpose of telling him to calm down is to tell him that the trolling issue he brought up is no big deal, and that he should not worry about it so much. That is exactly what I said “calm down” means, that one is dismissing someone’s concerns. Instead, what you could have done is ask him “Can you post exactly what part you think is trolling and why?” Then, when he brings up the issue, you could explain why that issue doesn’t count as trolling. But, no, he is told to calm down, having his concerns about trolling dismissed as him merely being upset over the election. Rather than take his claim seriously that a poster is trolling and dealing with that by explaining why he is not, he is accused of simply saying they are trolling because he disagrees. And I’ll even add one more. He says he’s concerned about his health over his actions. Why would someone say that in public if they are truly concerned? When I was concerned about the mental health of a now banned poster, I wrote them in private, saying I was concerned. When I freaked out a few years ago, people PM’d me in private. Many I now I now consider (online) friends. So clearly this isn’t some social rule that only I know. If you are actually concerned about someone’s health from their actions, you discuss it in private, because health is a private issue. What I am saying is fully backed up by premise, evidence, then conclusion. You may have a counterargument, that breaks one of my premises. You have, however not provided them. You are the one who did not back up your claim. However, I will not accuse you of saying “nonsense.” Just of having unstated premises that countered mine. However, such make for weak arguments. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882/80 "2018-11-03T16:24:05Z")
And lest you think the idea that telling someone to calm down doesn’t help is my invention, here are just a few sources: [Wall Street Journal](https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-you-should-never-tell-someone-to-relax-1471370408). [Metro talks to an actual psychologist.](https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/06/why-being-told-to-calm-down-in-the-middle-of-an-argument-fills-you-with-rage-6982081/) [A Harvard medical instructor](https://www.meetmindful.com/why-calm-down-is-not-the-right-thing-to-say/) And I didn’t have to hunt for those. They were all the top results of looking it up on Google. This is extremely commonly well known, and accepted by professionals. It’s something my own psychologist told my parents to help me deal. And lest you think it’s only known by experts, [here is a google search](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=calm+down+never+meme&oq=calm+down+never+meme) for the meme that has spread in multiple forms. Like I said, this is something that is widely known. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mods-still-incredibly-bad-at-spotting-trolls/823882.md?page=5)