# Moebius sued Luc Besson over Incal & 5th Element similarities- Was Moebius justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533 "2006-06-21T02:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/1 "2006-06-21T02:58:03Z")
[Case here](http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=791) (they lost) but did they have a point re [The Fifth Element](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fifth_Element) derivative copying of [The Incal?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incal) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/2 "2006-06-21T03:09:29Z")
I saw the Fifth Element once in the theatre and once recently after renting it. I have read (several times; it’s one of my favourite SF books) all six volumes of The adventures of John Difool (that’s the title of the series in French). I never noticed that there was a similarity. From a layman’s point of view, I don’t think the accusations are justified - but what exactly _is_ the accusation anyway? Plagiarism? Do you have a link with more details? I’ll have to rent the movie again and compare it with the comic books. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/3 "2006-06-21T03:48:17Z")
What I find strange with this lawsuit, is that Moebius was involved with the making of _The Fifth Element_ under his real name (Jean Giraud). ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/4 "2006-06-21T03:55:50Z")
You rang? 🆒 [Spoiler alert] Of course I’m a big fan, but I really don’t see the similarities. You had an androgyne who helps save the world-but then not really because in the Incal the world is transcended and reborn (as is our intrepid hero). There’s no counterpart to John in the movie at all-sure you have Bruce Willis but he’s just playing Bruce Willis like he usually does. I found this quote amusing: "Many people who have already read The Incal in French ask if it inspired The Fifth Element. It hasn’t been reported yet, but Humanoids is involved in a lawsuit right now with Luc Besson over The Fifth Element and The Incal. There are panels in Volumes 3 and 4 that are the exact same shots as in the movie. In fact, one of the original French books was titled ‘The Fifth Essence.’ If you want to have fun one day, pick up The Incal Volumes 3 and 4 when they come out and sit down and watch The Fifth Element. It’s like having a storyboard for the movie in comic book form.” Only thing I can see then is some visual similarities-certainly in terms of plot there’s virtually nothing. Now I _would_ like to see a real adaptation of the _Incal_ , but that’s another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/5 "2006-06-21T03:57:43Z")
You’re right, detop, I had never noticed that in the credits (or maybe he didn’t appear in the on-screen credits?) IMDB says: > **[The Fifth Element (1997) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/fullcredits)** > > The Fifth Element (1997) cast and crew credits, including actors, actresses, directors, writers and more. Jean Giraud - designer (as Jean ‘Moebius’ Giraud) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/6 "2006-06-21T11:01:19Z")
> [@detop](#): > > What I find strange with this lawsuit, is that Moebius was involved with the making of _The Fifth Element_ under his real name (Jean Giraud). Yeah, that’s a big “WTF” for me too. I assumed he was **responsible** for the similarities. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/7 "2006-06-21T11:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s no counterpart to John in the movie at all-sure you have Bruce Willis but he’s just playing Bruce Willis like he usually does Mobius was involved from a fairly early stage once Besson decided to go ahead with his long-cherished idea of making a big sf film; in ‘The Making of The Fifth Element’ book from Titan Publishers, which came out at the same time as the film, he says that to get Mobius onboard, he apparently related the entire film as he envisaged it to Mobius rather than give him a rough screenplay to read. Besson also says he discussed the film a lot with him (and Mezieres) finalising the script and characters and the look of it. At one point later in the book Mobius says something like, ‘I would draw and draw and Luc would tell me when it was right’. Mobius also says that, to him, the Bruce Willis character was a cross between Lieutenant Blueberry and John DiFool. At the the time he seemed perfectly happy that this was so. I can check the exact quotes and dates this evening once I’m home if anybody asks… ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/8 "2006-06-21T12:26:28Z")
> [@Arnold Winkelried](#): > > You’re right, detop, I had never noticed that in the credits (or maybe he didn’t appear in the on-screen credits?) IMDB says: > [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/fullcredits](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/fullcredits) > Jean Giraud - designer (as Jean ‘Moebius’ Giraud) He did appear in the credits. In fact when I saw it in the theater, I commented on that fact (also that the aliens seemed designed by Mézières). But on the link provided by **astro** , it says that it is Humanoids suing, so maybe he didn’t have a direct hand in it ? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moebius-sued-luc-besson-over-incal-5th-element-similarities-was-moebius-justified/361533/9 "2006-06-21T13:55:30Z")
> [@detop](#): > > He did appear in the credits. In fact when I saw it in the theater, I commented on that fact (also that the aliens seemed designed by Mézières). But on the link provided by **astro** , it says that it is Humanoids suing, so maybe he didn’t have a direct hand in it ? I got the Moebius suing part from the [wiki note on Incal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incal) > [@](#): > > Moebius and Jodorowsky sued Luc Besson, director of The Fifth Element, claiming that the film borrowed graphic and story elements from The Incal, but lost their case. In a 2002 interview with the Danish comic book magazine Strip!, Jodorowsky actually claimed that he considered it an honour that somebody stole his ideas which is not surprising as Jodorowsky believes that authors do not create the stories they tell as much as they make personal interpretations of myths universal to the collective human subconsciousness .