# Mohammed cartoons **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695 "2015-01-13T08:11:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/21 "2015-01-13T15:05:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You find retarded people offensive? šŸ˜• Perhaps I misunderstood the meaning of the phrase ā€œOffending the offensive is a laudable goal in itself.ā€ What do you understand ā€œoffending the offensiveā€ to mean? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/22 "2015-01-13T15:09:57Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Forgot to but a [link](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/charlie-hebdo-cover-shows-muhammad-holding-je-suis-charlie-article-1.2075278) to the specific cartoon in question (the cartoon is a depiction of Muhammed holding a sign saying ā€œJe Suis Charlieā€ under the words ā€œTout est pardonneā€ (ā€˜All is forgivenā€™)) More to the point; Who is being forgiven and by whom? And why the rush to forgive when the victimā€™s bodies are barely interned? I listened to NPR this morning and the BBC interviewer spoke to one of the CH editors (or writers?). She couldnā€™t explain the ā€œTout est pardonneā€ comment either. Something about the victims having a coffee with their killers (in some alternate universe, I guess) to discuss the reasons they did what they did. Made absolutely no sense. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/23 "2015-01-13T15:13:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Perhaps I misunderstood the meaning of the phrase ā€œOffending the offensive is a laudable goal in itself.ā€ > > What do you understand ā€œoffending the offensiveā€ to mean? I take it to mean that policies such as those that include discrimination of others based on gender and religion are offensive and ought to be subject to ridicule. How did you interpret ā€œoffending the offensiveā€? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/24 "2015-01-13T15:15:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I take it to mean that policies such as those that include discrimination of others based on gender and religion are offensive and ought to be subject to ridicule. > > How did you interpret ā€œoffending the offensiveā€? Looking at the phrase again, I really have no idea. Snark withdrawn, though I donā€™t think it means what you said. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/25 "2015-01-13T15:20:27Z")
Sure! Itā€™s not like Jesus, Abraham or any other religious figures/leaders are off the table. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/26 "2015-01-13T15:32:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Although Fox News has sort of blurred the line between news and satire. Not so much with their ridiculous reporting style. But every time Bill Oā€™Reily engages in a ā€œseriousā€ debate with Jon Stewart as if the two shows are on parity with each other. As Stewart told him, ā€œFox News is supposed to be a legitimate news reporting network. The Daily Show is sandwiched between shows starring puppets.ā€ Just for the sake of accuracy, Jon Stewart was addressing Tucker Carlson on CNNā€™s ā€œCrossfireā€ show. STEWART: Itā€™s not honest. What you do is not honest. What you do is partisan hackery. And I will tell you why I know it. CARLSON: You had John Kerry on your show and you sniff his throne and youā€™re accusing us of partisan hackery? STEWART: Absolutely. CARLSON: Youā€™ve got to be kidding me. He comes on and youā€¦ (CROSSTALK) STEWART: Youā€™re on CNN. The show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls. ---
**Author:** ![Recusant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Recusant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recusant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/27 "2015-01-13T15:48:36Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Forgot to but a [link](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/charlie-hebdo-cover-shows-muhammad-holding-je-suis-charlie-article-1.2075278) to the specific cartoon in question (the cartoon is a depiction of Muhammed holding a sign saying ā€œJe Suis Charlieā€ under the words ā€œTout est pardonneā€ (ā€˜All is forgivenā€™)) Thank you! Every time something like this happens, almost no one is willing to actually show the cartoons thatā€™ve given such offense; it gets grating after a while. And I second Arch Troutā€™s question: with there being no standard depiction of Mohammed, how do you know itā€™s him, and not just some dude in a turban? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/28 "2015-01-13T16:06:01Z")
Iā€™m all for free speech, but I wouldnā€™t publish them. I have a lot of mixed feelings about all of this. On the one hand I get freedom of the press. On the other hand, why publish something thatā€™s going to be obviously offensive to a large group of people? Thereā€™s probably nothing that gets published that I would be personally offended by, but I just donā€™t get the constant ā€œpoking of the bearā€ just because itā€™s there. It makes little sense to me to go out of your way to offend a large group of people. I donā€™t think Iā€™ve responded to any of the other threads on this topic. I have a hard time rationalizing the whole thing. I checked the first two options. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/29 "2015-01-13T16:08:42Z")
I voted Yes, yes, yes. Iā€™m sick of the norm being to kowtow to religious fairy-tales. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/30 "2015-01-13T16:27:15Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > On the one hand I get freedom of the press. On the other hand, why publish something thatā€™s going to be obviously offensive to a large group of people? > > Thereā€™s probably nothing that gets published that I would be personally offended by, but I just donā€™t get the constant ā€œpoking of the bearā€ just because itā€™s there. I would normally agree. Iā€™m not one to mock things that other people take seriously. But if somebody thinks that a cartoon is worth killing over, Iā€™m jolly well hitting the publish button. Flood the world and at least send a message that you canā€™t kill people over a cartoon, no matter how offensive it is. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/31 "2015-01-13T16:37:34Z")
Iā€™m not sure if Iā€™m being asked if I would publish the cartoon as the editor of Charlie Hebdo, or if I would publish them as the editor/news director of another outlet doing a _story_ on Charlie Hebdo. In the first case, I would publish the cartoon, because Iā€™m not going to be cowed by violence. The magazineā€™s purpose is to be funny and provocative so I have good justifiable reasons to print it. If Iā€™m leading a news organization, however, I donā€™t print them. Not because Iā€™m afraid of violence or that Iā€™m afraid of offending Muslims specifically; but because my general policy is not to offend any group of people if itā€™s not necessary to the story Iā€™m reporting. I can report on offensive images without displaying them, so thatā€™s what I would do. If people want to see the images, they can go find them at Charlie Hebdo. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/32 "2015-01-13T16:44:02Z")
In other words, the purpose of the news is not to give a ā€˜fuck youā€™ to people who get easily offended. Thereā€™s no reason for a professional news organization to go out of its way to knowingly cause offense. Itā€™s different if the images were somehow integral to the reporting of the story, but as weā€™ve seen all over the media this week, theyā€™re not. Hell most of the reporting Iā€™ve heard has been on the radio, and descriptions of the cartoons have easily provided me with enough information to understand what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/33 "2015-01-13T16:53:53Z")
Yes, I would publish, and yes, I would do so because of the right to free speech. However, and this is a big however, there is a line between free speech and being offensively anti-religious. I donā€™t think anything worthwhile is accomplished by crossing that line and would no sooner agree to publish something blatantly offensive to the Muslim faith than I would agree to publish something blatantly offensive to my own Christian faith. I do not believe the cartoon under discussion here is offensively anti-religious, so publish away! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/34 "2015-01-13T17:03:02Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Yes, I would publish, and yes, I would do so because of the right to free speech. > > However, and this is a big however, there is a line between free speech and being offensively anti-religious. I donā€™t think anything worthwhile is accomplished by crossing that line and would no sooner agree to publish something blatantly offensive to the Muslim faith than I would agree to publish something blatantly offensive to my own Christian faith. > > I do not believe the cartoon under discussion here is offensively anti-religious, so publish away! Itā€™s irrelevant whether or not _you_ find it offensive. By virtue of the fact that itā€™s an image of the prophet Mohammed makes it an offense to some not insignificant cross section of muslims. So either youā€™re with the muslims or youā€™re with the infidels. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/35 "2015-01-13T17:05:36Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > But if somebody thinks that a cartoon is worth killing over, Iā€™m jolly well hitting the publish button. Flood the world and at least send a message that you canā€™t kill people over a cartoon, no matter how offensive it is. So if, say, a neo-Nazi pamphleteer or white-supremacist blogger were shot by an outraged black or Jewish vigilante, you would republish the racist materials? ā€œFlood the worldā€ with them? ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/36 "2015-01-13T17:32:19Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I chose ā€œotherā€, as in I would publish if showing them were relevant to the article, i.e. newsworthy. > > Look closer, heā€™s wearing a name tag saying ā€œHi! Iā€™m Mohammedā€. Oops! :smack: Thanks, never noticed that. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/37 "2015-01-13T18:01:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I voted, _Yes because Free Speech_, but really itā€™s - _Yes, because Fuck Off You Ignorant Fundamentalist Fucking Shit Stains_. Yes, this. I donā€™t allow fundamentalism of any stripe to control my life. I didnā€™t escape from those ignorant Christian fundies to be afraid of Muslim fundies. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/38 "2015-01-13T18:26:57Z")
Sure, Iā€™d do it, because yay free speech and boo organized religion. But there limits to tastefulness, many of the same people that are happy to Mohammed parodied would get peeved by a bunch of cartoons disparaging Jesus. So I believe the very act of drawing Mohammed or Jesus or any fictional or real person should be legal and tolerated, but we donā€™t need to be overly disrespectful about it. Make your point and move on. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/39 "2015-01-13T18:55:20Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > So if, say, a neo-Nazi pamphleteer or white-supremacist blogger were shot by an outraged black or Jewish vigilante, you would republish the racist materials? ā€œFlood the worldā€ with them? Fair question. For me it would be a question of, is there an ideology out thereā€“a whole group of peopleā€“that thinks it is absolutely fair and just to kill someone over a cartoon/speech/whathaveyou. One person is a random nut. A few people, even, are random nuts. Radical Islam might not be a giant movement, but itā€™s definitely a movement with a record of thinking itā€™s a good idea to kill people over cartoons; they feel theyā€™re doing God a favor. Nope. [Hereā€™s a cartoon meditating upon your question, though.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/joe-sacco-on-satire-a-response-to-the-attacks?CMP=fb_gu) As it happens, free speech is a bit of a bee in my bonnet. I follow FIRE obsessively, push Rauchā€™s ā€œKindly Inquisitorsā€ on everyone I can corner for 5 minutes, and run Banned Books Week at work. So, yeah, Iā€™m a little absolutist about it. For me, free speech is a paramount political valueā€¦even though Iā€™ve never said anything more offensive than ā€œhellā€ out loud. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695/40 "2015-01-13T19:37:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Itā€™s irrelevant whether or not _you_ find it offensive. By virtue of the fact that itā€™s an image of the prophet Mohammed makes it an offense to some not insignificant cross section of muslims. > > So either youā€™re with the muslims or youā€™re with the infidels. Actually, it IS relevant what I think about it as I am the publicationā€™s editor and have the ability to make that kind of decision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mohammed-cartoons/709695.md?page=3)