# Mollie Tibbetts missing college student (allegedly) killed by illegal alien **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030 "2018-08-22T06:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/181 "2018-08-23T20:32:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Hewey apparently thinks the reason there wasn’t already a thread about this particular murder, this one out of 50, was the board’s liberal consensus. This on one of the biggest news days of the summer, hours after the conviction of one of Trump’s closest associates on multiple charges, and the multiple guilty pleas of another of his closest associates. It was all a liberal plot that on such a day, we didn’t go to the national equivalent of a police blotter, and pick this particular murder out of the pile to make a big deal of. > > What a crock. Agreed. Because somehow one murder in Iowa is more important that the President’s henchmen being found/pleading guilty to law-breaking, or the now-weekly blood bath in Chicago, etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/182 "2018-08-23T20:35:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > We are simply becoming too damn crowded to allow millions more in every year. Do we have to be as crowded as Japan before we finally say enough is enough? First, we are an order of magnitude less densely populated than Japan Second, if it weren’t for immigration our population would be going down and we’d be facing some of the same demographic issues as Japan with an aging population supported by fewer and fewer young people. We still have plenty of room, especially if we encourage people to move into “fly-over” country rather than pilling up on the coasts. ---
**Author:** ![Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reindeer_flotilla/32/3024_2.png) [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reindeer_Flotilla)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/183 "2018-08-23T20:35:40Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Anyway, to get back to the beginning, the whole notion of this this thread is a crock. Considering the timing of the reporting of this to the convictions of Cohen and his statements regarding President Trump, I think the notion of this thread can be characterized as “Everybody, look over here!”. Which, upon reflection, is probably exactly what you were saying. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/184 "2018-08-23T20:41:37Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > We are simply becoming too damn crowded to allow millions more in every year. Do we have to be as crowded as Japan before we finally say enough is enough? Cutting and pasting upthread reponses because this is so silly. Japan has a population density of 334 people/km^2, the US is 33. Why do you think the US is crowded? If you live in a city, cities are going to be crowded. We don’t like density, so they’re not going to get anymore crowded. If traffic is your worry, traffic is not crowding. Traffic is a function of aversion to public transport. I mean, if you think the US is too crowded, spend a weekend in, I dunno, Winnemucca Nevada. It seems like your definition of ‘crowded’ may be related to something other than national population density, but only you can tell us for sure. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/185 "2018-08-23T20:58:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It was all a liberal plot that on such a day, we didn’t go to the national equivalent of a police blotter, and pick this particular murder out of the pile to make a big deal of. To be fair, it was a white girl. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/186 "2018-08-23T21:05:09Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That was over 120 years ago. That was then, this is now. > > We are simply becoming too damn crowded to allow millions more in every year. Do we have to be as crowded as Japan before we finally say enough is enough? Interestingly enough, the problem with many small towns is that there aren’t enough people in them to keep them alive, and people keep leaving as a result. So far from “overcrowding”, these immigrants [bring new life to these small towns](http://www.dailyyonder.com/immigrants-bring-rejuvenation-to-many-small-towns/2015/10/28/9083/). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/187 "2018-08-23T21:18:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Here is a nice article about it: > > [Mollie Tibbetts’ death is being used to push debunked ideas about illegal immigration and violent crime](https://www.businessinsider.com/undocumented-aliens-violent-crime-murder-statistics-data-2018-8) > > From that article: Here are some tidbits from [a recent factcheck.org article on the topic](https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/): > [@](#): > > … A recap of the literature on this topic can be found [here](https://theconversation.com/immigration-and-crime-what-does-the-research-say-72176). But those studies don’t look specifically at illegal immigration. … “If you are asking if illegals commit crimes out of their proportion of the population as I said maybe, maybe not,” Camarota said. “Data is limited and it depends on who you compare them to.” As we said, there aren’t readily available nationwide crime statistics broken down by immigration status. … ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/188 "2018-08-23T21:57:03Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I assumed your meaning, but I hear you suggesting I’m in error. How about we save the guessing games, and you state what you’re asserting? > > I’d like to hear your assertion before you pull that football away. We might as well agree what we’re arguing about, don’t you think? Any response, **Hurr**? Any at all? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/189 "2018-08-23T22:04:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Exactly. And it made no sense, which was why I went “Huhwhat?” > > You were talking about legal immigration from Mexico, Little Nemo pointed out the absence of same over a period of decades, and your question was, in that context, out of left field, an apparent attempt to change the subject rather than deal with **Nemo** ’s response. > > [Nick Danger voice]Didn’t I already say this on the other side of the record?[/Nick Danger] I wanted to explore his attitudes about immigration a bit further, to find out if he was part of the “Abolish ICE” crowd or not. I admit my question to him was a bit of an aside, but I don’t think it was a “dodge” because he didn’t even ask me a question. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > The numbers are somewhat guesswork. There are probably a bit fewer than 150M white males in the U.S. As **manson1972** ’s link says, the evidence supports there being less violence by immigrants (either legal or illegal) than by persons born here, and my 20,000/150,000,000 was to indicate a slightly higher ratio of poisonous Skittles in the white American male Skittles bag than in the illegal immigrant bag. > > If you’re scared of the illegal immigrants’ Skittles, my point was that white male American Skittles should have you running for the border. > > You say you’re not, so I downrate accordingly your concern about the immigrant Skittles. Thanks for your explanation on the numbers. I don’t mind guesswork, just wanted to know where it was coming from. As for “white male American Skittles should have you running for the border”: There’s another group of male American Skittles you’re excluding here that are even more dangerous, but setting that aside for a moment, my first thought was “run for the border? which border? where would I run to?”. I don’t think there’s another country on earth that can provide me the same level & type of freedom and economic opportunity as America. I don’t want to run away from it, although I would like to see it be a less violent place. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/190 "2018-08-23T22:11:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I assumed your meaning, but I hear you suggesting I’m in error. How about we save the guessing games, and you state what you’re asserting? > In fact I do, but since you seem to be saying I’m not clear on your assertion, I’d like to hear your assertion before you pull that football away. We might as well agree what we’re arguing about, don’t you think? > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Any response, **Hurr**? Any at all? I still don’t know what assertion he’s talking about. I’ve made lots of posts in this thread, probably quite a few of them contain various assertions. I’m not sure which one(s) he’s asking about, so my response is still some form of “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” Is there a particular post you’d like additional elaboration on? If so, which one. I’m happy to chat, I just don’t yet know what you want to chat about. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/191 "2018-08-23T23:34:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I still don’t know what assertion he’s talking about. I’ve made lots of posts in this thread, probably quite a few of them contain various assertions. I’m not sure which one(s) he’s asking about, so my response is still some form of “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” Is there a particular post you’d like additional elaboration on? If so, which one. I’m happy to chat, I just don’t yet know what you want to chat about. Yes, you’re all over the map, aren’t you. How about telling us what you favor, in the form of “I favor \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ change in policy, because I think that will quantifiably lead to more/less of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. As a bonus, here is a cite.” Just tell us what you’re doing in this thread, apart from taking potshots. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/192 "2018-08-23T23:48:52Z")
Hiding from [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=860925). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/193 "2018-08-24T00:08:46Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Hiding from [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=860925). 😃 Not at all. I’ve got a partially written response but I’m mulling it over and making refinements and edits still. I fully intend to lay out my thoughts there. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/194 "2018-08-24T00:19:24Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yes, you’re all over the map, aren’t you. Yeah, I’m involved in a variety of conversations and threads. It’s hard to keep up. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > How about telling us what you favor, in the form of "I favor \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ change in policy, because I think that will quantifiably lead to more/less of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. I favor deporting more illegal immigrants because I think that will quantifiably lead to fewer rapes and homicides of American citizens by illegal immigrants. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > As a bonus, here is a cite." I can’t see it. Not sure if this was a joke that went over my head, or a mistake on your part. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Just tell us what you’re doing in this thread, apart from taking potshots. Discussing a topic of moderate interest to me. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/195 "2018-08-24T00:29:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Here are some tidbits from [a recent factcheck.org article on the topic](https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/): And one should not miss the conclusion: > [@](#): > > As we said, there aren’t readily available nationwide crime statistics broken down by immigration status. \*\*But the available research that estimates the relationship between illegal immigration and crime generally shows an association with lower crime rates. \*\*The impetus is on the president to provide evidence of his claim, and Trump instead simply cited statistics on violent crime committed by all noncitizens without attempting to compare those figures to crimes committed by native-born residents. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/196 "2018-08-24T00:37:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Here are some tidbits from [a recent factcheck.org article on the topic](https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/): Here’s another tidbit from that same factcheck article: > [@](#): > > But the available research that estimates the relationship between illegal immigration and crime generally shows an association with lower crime rates I’m personally shocked that you didn’t include that ‘tidbit’ Edited to add: DAMMIT, I wanted to provide that first! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/197 "2018-08-24T01:18:15Z")
We could probably have a long and interesting discussion about that “available research that estimates the relationship”. Camarota offered a clue in the portion I quoted: “it depends on who you compare them to.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/198 "2018-08-24T01:23:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We could probably have a long and interesting discussion about that “available research that estimates the relationship”. Camarota offered a clue in the portion I quoted: “it depends on who you compare them to.” Perhaps you shouldn’t post a cite that declares “But the available research that estimates the relationship between illegal immigration and crime generally shows an association with lower crime rates” and then try to argue that the available research doesn’t say that. Especially when your own cite says Camarota is with “the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that advocates low immigration” Probably no bias there. People actually read what you link to, you know. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/199 "2018-08-24T01:41:23Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps you shouldn’t post a cite that declares “But the available research that estimates the relationship between illegal immigration and crime generally shows an association with lower crime rates” and then try to argue that the available research doesn’t say that. Where did I “try to argue that the available research doesn’t say that”? The point I was trying to make was that it’s an area with scant research. I said “I don’t think this point is as clear-cut as you seem to think” and “I suspect you’ve made the case harder for yourself to prove (but perhaps I’m wrong)”. > [@Slash1972](#): > > … People actually read what you link to, you know. That’s fantastic. Here, read this (from [one of the studies under discussion](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175)): > [@](#): > > Indeed, in a recent meta‐analysis of the 51 macro‐level immigration–crime studies conducted between 1994 and 2014, not one was aimed at explicitly examining unauthorized immigration flows (Ousey and Kubrin, 2017). Since that time, we are aware of only one study in which the association between unauthorized immigration and violence was investigated. In that study, Green (2016) found that undocumented immigration is generally not associated with violent crime, though unauthorized immigration from Mexico may be associated with higher rates of violence. What do you think? Are you comfortable saying “the science is settled” on this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/200 "2018-08-24T01:45:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What do you think? Are you comfortable saying “the science is settled” on this issue? I’m comfortable in saying that the cite that YOU provided says: > [@](#): > > the available research that estimates the relationship between illegal immigration and crime generally shows an association with lower crime rates Now, if you think that is incorrect, then why would you cite it? That doesn’t make sense to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=11)