# Mollie Tibbetts missing college student (allegedly) killed by illegal alien **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030 "2018-08-22T06:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/281 "2018-08-25T19:48:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know what you’re referring to here. Could you quote the statement you’re talking about? I took the trouble ask your exact assertions, make sure I got them right, and then quoted them literally word for word in post 275, and you’re not sure what I’m talking about. I mean… how is anyone supposed to take you seriously at this point? > [@](#): > > Yes, I misunderstood. You’re right. Here’s a cite: [USA Today - My son was murdered by an illegal immigrant. Neither he nor Mollie Tibbetts deserved to die.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/08/23/illegal-immigrant-molly-tibbitts-murder-crime-column/1074055002/) I give you 5 cites referencing scientific studies showing that illegal immigrant populations don’t correlate with increased crime, and you come back with a freaking anecdote. You know anecdotes aren’t data, right? Is this just a placeholder while you go out and search for actual evidence? Don’t bother answering, it’s obvious what you’re doing. You should be embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/282 "2018-08-26T03:23:33Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > … illegal-immigrant males of any color actually rape at a lower rate than white US citizens… Someone said that in this thread about “white US citizens”? I saw some claims about native-born citizens, but nothing like that about “white US citizens”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/283 "2018-08-26T03:27:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I support deportation for illegal aliens not because of the potential crimes they may commit (although I believe it will have an effect there), but because they broke the law by entering the country illegally and the appropriate punishment for that illegal act is deportation. Is that clear? It would be clear if that was the only statement you’ve made on the issue. But earlier in this thread, you said that one of the reasons for deporting illegal immigrants was because of the rapes and murders they might commit. Do you still feel that is a reason to deport somebody? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/284 "2018-08-26T03:29:31Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > … You know anecdotes aren’t data, right? … Yes, but I don’t think my assertion needs data to defend it. Anecdotes are sufficient for how it’s worded. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/285 "2018-08-26T03:32:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It would be clear if that was the only statement you’ve made on the issue. But earlier in this thread, you said that one of the reasons for deporting illegal immigrants was because of the rapes and murders they might commit. Do you still feel that is a reason to deport somebody? Sure. That can be “one of the reason”, in cases where the law allows deportation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/286 "2018-08-26T03:58:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sure. That can be “one of the reason”, in cases where the law allows deportation. So your answer is a firm yes and no. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/287 "2018-08-26T10:00:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > right wig media Actually, it’s more of a leg network… ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/288 "2018-08-26T13:19:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, but I don’t think my assertion needs data to defend it. Anecdotes are sufficient for how it’s worded. Oh okay. So we return to “what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” Dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/289 "2018-08-26T16:02:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, i really don’t understand why the big deal about Mollie. I was seeing her story in the news before they knew she was murdered, just when she was missing. Yeah, it sucks for her and her family, but it sucks for thousands of families when a loved one is lost or murdered. > > A few weeks ago, someone came to my shop asking to put up [this flyer](https://www.westchesteroh.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=10532) about her missing sister. She’s been missing since July 28th. A month later, still missing. > > There are a few local stories about her, but nothing national or even statewide, there are more links from her church than from news agencies. Just as a followup, [they found her body friday night in a field](https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/butler-county/west-chester/man-arrested-charged-in-death-of-missing-west-chester-township-woman). Suspect is a white guy who has lived in the area his whole life, though, so don’t expect it to be making national news the way it would had he been an immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/290 "2018-08-26T16:47:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Paul Manafort was convicted of a crime today. Obviously it follows that we should hold every other Republican guilty of committing crimes as well and remove all of them from office. > > Or does that logic only apply to Mexicans? > > If you want to lock up Cristhian Rivera for life, or even give him the death penalty, I’m with you. But if you want to arrest ten million people for a crime that was committed by one person, then you’re a racist. Nope, if a republican or democrat commits a crime he or she should be held responsible for breaking that law. Why should an illegal alien get a pass? Are they not in the country illegally, are they not working illegally? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/291 "2018-08-26T18:05:05Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Nope, if a republican or democrat commits a crime he or she should be held responsible for breaking that law. Why should an illegal alien get a pass? Are they not in the country illegally, are they not working illegally? Uh, **Little Nemo** said in the quote that you just made that the one committing murder should not get a pass. Can’t speak for him but I already pointed out that if the Farm owners had done E-verify chances are that that illegal would not had been there. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/292 "2018-08-26T18:10:11Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Oh okay. So we return to “what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” Dismissed. It was asserted without “data” but not without “evidence”. For example, if someone were to claim “\_\_\_\_\_\_ never ever happened”, then I don’t need “data” on the rate of occurrences of \_\_\_\_\_\_, I simply need one anecdote of when \_\_\_\_\_ occurred to disprove the assertion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/293 "2018-08-26T18:43:43Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Nope, if a republican or democrat commits a crime he or she should be held responsible for breaking that law. Why should an illegal alien get a pass? Are they not in the country illegally, are they not working illegally? If they enter the country legally but overstay, they may or may not be a criminal. There are all sorts of “illegally”- blowing up a bus load of nuns and orphans to having your parking meter expire. Overstaying your visa is far, far closer to the second one. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/294 "2018-08-26T21:38:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It was asserted without “data” but not without “evidence”. For example, if someone were to claim “\_\_\_\_\_\_ never ever happened”, then I don’t need “data” on the rate of occurrences of \_\_\_\_\_\_, I simply need one anecdote of when \_\_\_\_\_ occurred to disprove the assertion. But I never actually made a statement to that effect. Or you’ll kindly link the post where I said that. I state that illegal immigrants don’t commit violent crime in greater numbers than other populations, and I gave good solid cites to that effect. You stated - well, you changed your story, so it’s hard to pin down… that fewer people will get raped and murdered if we deport more illegal immigrants. Or fewer illegal immigrants will rape people. “Fewer” is a numbers argument, and if you’re appealing to numbers, then you need to bring data. Anecdotes are by definition not sufficient to argue “fewer”. Or are we falling back to “If it even saves one child, it’s worth it”? I didn’t think conservatives were big on that line of reasoning, but cool, there are ALL kinds of conservative positions we can destroy if you sign onto that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/295 "2018-08-26T22:05:16Z")
Pretty much incontrovertible that fewer people will guarantee fewer incidents of rape and murder. Also fewer incidents of double-parking and overdue library books. The effects on sale of dog food is unknown. We might just count our blessings that no other proposals to relieve population density have been offered. These people already got me worried. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/296 "2018-08-27T21:27:03Z")
People here keep asking **HurricaneDitka** whether he’s interested in reducing the overall crime rate, to which he replies he is interested in reducing crimes committed by undocumented immigrants. Everybody is missing his point because we’re leaving out a basic assumption by the anti-immigrant right. They believe that US citizenship is a sacred right bestowed by birth, if not by God Himself, and that entering the country illegally is a violation of that sacred asset. They see the United States legal system as a closed system, and granting the rights of that legal system to anyone other than native-born citizens is a travesty beyond comprehension. They reject the notion of the United States as an entity which should provide basic rights to all human beings; those rights should only be provided to native-born citizens. They are not reassured by the fact that undocumented criminals will be arrested and tried by the US legal system, because that would mean the criminal is using resources to which they have no right as a non-citizen. So we keep treating the furor over the murder of Mollie Tibbetts as an attempt to paint all undocumented immigrants as criminals, when that’s not the point that the anti-immigrant right is trying make at all. The fact that anyone enters the country illegally at all is already a travesty to them. It’s not like they will feel better if we remind them that crime rate among undocumented immigrants is lower than the native population, because the simple fact of illegal entry is already a grave, grave offense to them. I’m sure that **HurricaneDitka** is generally interested in reducing overall crime rates, but in the context of this particular debate he is just infuriated that anyone is here illegally at all, and the fact that even one of them has murdered someone is to be laid at the feet of the fact of illegal immigration, rather than blamed on the fact that any population will have a few criminals in it. For what it’s worth, I disagree with everything I’ve written here and find it to be based in ignorance and bigotry, but I think it bears saying. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/297 "2018-08-27T21:46:16Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > People here keep asking **HurricaneDitka** whether he’s interested in reducing the overall crime rate, to which he replies he is interested in reducing crimes committed by undocumented immigrants. Everybody is missing his point because we’re leaving out a basic assumption by the anti-immigrant right. They believe that US citizenship is a sacred right bestowed by birth, if not by God Himself, and that entering the country illegally is a violation of that sacred asset. They see the United States legal system as a closed system, and granting the rights of that legal system to anyone other than native-born citizens is a travesty beyond comprehension. … I agree that what you’ve written here is based in ignorance. For the record, I do not actually believe that “granting the rights of that legal system to anyone other than native-born citizens is a travesty beyond comprehension.” I stated (I believe it was this thread) that I’d like to see a merit-based immigration system. That means I’d like to see legal rights, even citizenship, granted to immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/298 "2018-08-27T21:52:14Z")
“Merit.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/299 "2018-08-27T21:55:57Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > … You stated - well, you changed your story, so it’s hard to pin down… that fewer people will get raped and murdered if we deport more illegal immigrants. Or fewer illegal immigrants will rape people. “Fewer” is a numbers argument, and if you’re appealing to numbers, then you need to bring data. Anecdotes are by definition not sufficient to argue “fewer”. The anecdotes are sufficient to show that deporting illegal immigrants will lead to “fewer” murders or rapes of American citizens by illegal immigrants. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Or are we falling back to “If it even saves one child, it’s worth it”? I didn’t think conservatives were big on that line of reasoning, but cool, there are ALL kinds of conservative positions we can destroy if you sign onto that. There are all kinds of radical thing that could be done to “save one child”. There are also some reasonable things that can be done in accordance with our laws and values. I believe “deport illegal immigrants” is one of the latter. Other conservative positions might better be topics for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/300 "2018-08-27T21:57:37Z")
> [@andros](#): > > “Merit.” Yes, something like Canada has. Is Canada’s immigration system racist / sexist / otherwise objectionable in your eyes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=16)