# Mollie Tibbetts missing college student (allegedly) killed by illegal alien **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030 "2018-08-22T06:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/41 "2018-08-22T13:23:30Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Because all things must be politicized by party now, it seems Christhain Rivera has been working on a farm owned by Republicans for the last 4 years. The Washington Post is reporting that: > > “Rivera worked at Yarrabee Farms in Brooklyn, Iowa, the farm’s president Eric Lang told The Associated Press. He was in good standing, according to Lang, and had passed the government’s e-verify system. Lang is the brother of Craig Lang, a “prominent Iowa farmer and GOP official” who recently lost the 2018 Republican primary to become Iowa’s agriculture secretary.” [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/08/21/mollie-tibbetts-has-been-found-dead-a-month-after-she-vanished-authorities-say/?utm\_term=.46464fb1851d](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/08/21/mollie-tibbetts-has-been-found-dead-a-month-after-she-vanished-authorities-say/?utm_term=.46464fb1851d) > > If true, and the farm owner says it is, this would prove that Republicans are hypocrits on illegal immigrants- they say in public that we need to stop illegal immigration, but hire illegal immigrants as employees instead of good ol Americans. If he passed E-Verify, I don’t know what more you expect the employer to do. That’s a failure of government, not the employer. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/42 "2018-08-22T14:26:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If he passed E-Verify, I don’t know what more you expect the employer to do. That’s a failure of government, not the employer. The Governor is Republican, [The federal congress representative and senators are Republican](http://www.52211.us/) and the majority in the local congress is Republican too. Come to think of it, the President is also one too. They must be tired of winning. /s And it should go without saying, but it has to be remarked that if the accused is found guilty that he should remain the rest of his life behind bars. And in any case the victim’s family does deserve condolences and support. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/43 "2018-08-22T14:38:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I find it very politically convenient that this woman was killed by an illegal immigrant. But then, I’m not privy to any of the details here. I don’t know if this is a slam-dunk or just slim evidence here. This is a very unwise argument, since it appears to concede that some inference about illegal immigrants in general does hinge on the facts of this one case. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/44 "2018-08-22T14:39:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The Governor is Republican, [The federal congress representative and senators are Republican](http://www.52211.us/) and the majority in the local congress is Republican too. Come to think of it, the President is also one too. They must be tired of winning. /s Is E-Verify run by Republican partisans? Was it 4 years ago when Rivera passed? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And it should go without saying, but it has to be remarked that if the accused is found guilty that he should remain the rest of his life behind bars. And in any case the victim’s family does deserve condolences and support. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/45 "2018-08-22T15:12:41Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Surprised (not really) there isn’t a topic on this board already discussing the implications of the illegal alien allegedly killing the (up until now) missing Iowa student > > It’s an anathema to (what I consider) this boards consensus, or general zeitgeist, that unfettered immigration is good and anything outside of that (a wall, enforcement of illegal immigration) is morally (among other things) wrong. > > Does any of these happenings change anyone’s opinion on immigration, or is this just an anomaly that can be easily ignored? Changes no one’s mind among those sharing the board consensus, and easily ignored, at least as far as anyone speaking up, as the thread predictably shows. That consensus position tends to focus on the contention, perhaps accurate\*, that the serious crime rate is no higher among illegal aliens than the general population. But, assuming that’s true, it’s not necessarily air tight logic to proceed to the idea that one shouldn’t worry about crimes committed by people who could be excluded from the country. Assume for a moment it’s reasonable to have laws saying who can and can’t come to the country, rather than accepting anyone who wants to come. Assume those laws could practically be enforced more than they are being enforced. Then enforcing them more would exclude more criminals. It’s not as if illegal aliens replace native born (or legal immigrant) criminals. They add to the number of criminals. It’s doesn’t logically follow that if you want the immigration laws more effectively enforced it means you must prove illegal immigrants commit crime at a higher rate. IOW seems to me the debate about criminal illegal aliens is generally a proxy. The board consensus would say it’s a proxy for racism on the other side. But on the board consensus side I believe it’s often a proxy for disputing the two assumptions I gave above. \*there are no definitive statistics. This link gives general narrative weight to indirect or small sample studies claiming the illegal immigrant rate is lower than general rate, but it also mixes in studies looking at immigrants, not illegal immigrants. Note that some of the findings illegals have a lower rate, and the push back on Lott’s study showing they have a higher rate, is by the conservative/libertarian Cato institute so it’s not strictly a left-right debate on an intellectual level. > **[Is Illegal Immigration Linked to More or Less Crime? - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/)** > > President Donald Trump said it’s “not true” that immigrants in the U.S. illegally are “safer than the people that live in the country,” providing several crime statistics he claimed represented the “toll of illegal immigration.” Sen. Bernie... ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/46 "2018-08-22T15:14:10Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/47 "2018-08-22T15:18:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is E-Verify run by Republican partisans? Was it 4 years ago when Rivera passed? Now you are avoiding what it means when republicans control the government. If one wants to refer about failures in government, then it is pertinent to complain about the ones in charge right now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/48 "2018-08-22T15:23:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’re saying you think he’s “likely to” “arrest ten million people for” the murder of Molly Tibbetts? That’s insane. Literally a post straight out of bizarro-world with absolutely no basis in reality. Nothing bizarro about what I’ve written. Right wingers, like you and the OP, will use Rivera as a poster child in your ongoing campaign against Mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/49 "2018-08-22T15:30:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Now you are avoiding what it means when republicans control the government. If one wants to refer about failures in government, then it is pertinent to complain about the ones in charge right now. Not if the failure happened four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/50 "2018-08-22T15:32:23Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This is a very unwise argument, since it appears to concede that some inference about illegal immigrants in general does hinge on the facts of this one case. It seems like a legitimate argument to me. Because yes, some inference about illegal immigrants WILL be made by certain people, and it won’t be a good one. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/51 "2018-08-22T15:32:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I disagree. Nobody says all cops are killers. Just that many cops who are killers get away with murder. I don’t think anyone is making the argument that _all_ illegal immigrants are killers either. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/52 "2018-08-22T15:38:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think anyone is making the argument that _all_ illegal immigrants are killers either. Some, I’m sure, are good people. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/53 "2018-08-22T15:42:15Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Some, I’m sure, are good people. At this point I don’t know if you’re referring to the cops or the illegal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/54 "2018-08-22T15:45:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems like a legitimate argument to me. Because yes, some inference about illegal immigrants WILL be made by certain people, and it won’t be a good one. Claim without evidence: Maybe he didn’t do it! Maybe it’s a conspiracy by Trumpists to discredit illegal immigrants! The evidence turns out to show that there was no conspiracy, he did do it. How do you think that plays out? There are evil individuals in any cross-section of society that you choose. If the rational position is that actions of one individual imply nothing about the behavior of an entire social group, then it’s a mistake to discuss the uncertain facts of case _as though_ any such implication might hinge on it. Even if you do not intend to grant that assumption, it can easily be interpreted that you are doing so. If there’s _evidence_ of him being framed by local Trumpists with an agenda, that’s another matter, with depressing implications about our society. But I think you need to be careful about speculation when (so far as I’m aware) at the moment there’s not a shred of evidence to support this notion. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/55 "2018-08-22T15:50:56Z")
I don’t care if it is a frame up, or if he really did do it. It’s politically convenient for those pressing the “Illegal Immigrants are murdering thugs!” angle. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/56 "2018-08-22T15:53:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t care if it is a frame up, or if he really did do it. It’s politically convenient for those pressing the “Illegal Immigrants are murdering thugs!” angle. If it’s a frame up, and an innocent man is going to be imprisoned for life for a crime he didn’t commit, we should all care about that. I’d urge you to reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/57 "2018-08-22T15:56:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If it’s a frame up, and an innocent man is going to be imprisoned for life for a crime he didn’t commit, we should all care about that. I’d urge you to reconsider. Let me try again. “Whether or not it is a frame up that nobody ever finds out about, or if he really did do it, it’s politically convenient for those pressing the “Illegal Immigrants are murdering thugs!” angle” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/58 "2018-08-22T16:04:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > “Whether or not it is a frame up that nobody ever finds out about, or if he really did do it, it’s politically convenient for those pressing the “Illegal Immigrants are murdering thugs!” angle” So why were you challenging my point that it’s a poor idea to engage in unfounded speculation that _this particular case_ might be frame-up, when such speculation can easily be interpreted to be granting an assumption that something broader about illegal immigrants _does_ depend on whether that’s true or false? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/59 "2018-08-22T16:09:16Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So why were you challenging my point that it’s a poor idea to engage in unfounded speculation that _this particular case_ might be frame-up, when such speculation can easily be interpreted to be granting an assumption that something broader about illegal immigrants _does_ depend on whether that’s true or false? I’m afraid I don’t understand your question here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/60 "2018-08-22T16:14:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not if the failure happened four years ago. In that case, it seems to me the polite thing for Trump to do would be to stop claiming credit for things that happened four\* or more\* years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=4)