# Mollie Tibbetts missing college student (allegedly) killed by illegal alien **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030 "2018-08-22T06:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/81 "2018-08-22T18:43:38Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Ok, then would you care to actually respond to what I said in post #54 about why such speculation may be strategically harmful? > > This isn’t something I dispute, and it’s not responsive to the argument I laid out in post #54. You frame it as disputing a claim I made, when it’s essentially a _non sequitur_ that comes closer to agreeing with me. I see you edited post #54, so I might not have seen any additional text you put there. But after re-reading it, I think we may be arguing about different aspects of this case which may be the cause of the confusion. First, here is Broomstick’s statement that I agree with: “I find it very politically convenient that this woman was killed by an illegal immigrant. But then, I’m not privy to any of the details here. I don’t know if this is a slam-dunk or just slim evidence here” I see nothing about “frame up” or anything there, and it did not cross my mind that there could be. But that doesn’t matter to me. Because it IS politically convenient to people who are very anti-illegal immigrant for the murderer to be an illegal immigrant. Unless you are using a different definition of “politically convenient” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/82 "2018-08-22T18:55:41Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > The Idea that a crime committed by an undocumented immigrant is a crime that wouldn’t have happened if that immigrant was not here, is not born out by any data. Cities of equal size and equal economic status have an equal number of major crimes, regardless of their population demographic. That specific person wouldn’t have hurt you, it’s true, but someone else, native or other, would have hurt some other victim. Ah, so illegal immigrants are taking _murderers’_ jobs away. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/83 "2018-08-22T19:25:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Knowing that others did notice how outfits like FOX news used this bit of news to avoid talking about the problems the “gift-getter” Trump has, I do think that that this will be part of the debate alright, not just the one many on the right wanted. > > [https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-slammed-over-thin-cohen-manafort-coverage/](https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-slammed-over-thin-cohen-manafort-coverage/) I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to learn that left-leaning and right-leaning media outlets disagree on which stories merit the most coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/84 "2018-08-22T19:31:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Knowing that others did notice how outfits like FOX news used this bit of news to avoid talking about the problems the “gift-getter” Trump has, I do think that that this will be part of the debate alright, not just the one many on the right wanted. > > [https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-slammed-over-thin-cohen-manafort-coverage/](https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-slammed-over-thin-cohen-manafort-coverage/) Do you expect Fox News’ ratings to decline as the result of their poor coverage? By the way, do you happen to know which cable news channel is in first place in viewership? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/85 "2018-08-22T19:35:19Z")
Define “cable news channel.” Especially the “news” part. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/86 "2018-08-22T19:46:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do you expect Fox News’ ratings to decline as the result of their poor coverage? > > By the way, do you happen to know which cable news channel is in first place in viewership? Literally none of this has anything to do with what he said, nor the topic of this thread. No one mentioned anything about Fox losing viewership. What’s with the non sequitur? Can you not argue with what was actually said, that using this as a distraction would backfire on the national conversation? And is there a reason you’re jumping in to defend Fox? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/87 "2018-08-22T19:51:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do you expect Fox News’ ratings to decline as the result of their poor coverage? > > By the way, do you happen to know which cable news channel is in first place in viewership? Technically, they are down in numbers over the last year. Though, so is CNN (by slightly less). [https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/11/msnbc-democrats-ratings-cnn-fox-513388](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/11/msnbc-democrats-ratings-cnn-fox-513388) MSNBC is doing wonderfully, though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/88 "2018-08-22T19:56:11Z")
**Fox News Retakes Primetime Ratings Lead From MSNBC, But Maddow Still No. 1** _Forbes_, here. [Fox News Retakes Primetime Ratings Lead From MSNBC, But Maddow Still No. 1](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brettedkins/2017/07/28/fox-news-retakes-primetime-ratings-lead-from-msnbc-but-maddow-still-no-1/#20e2dbc52ff5) Swan’s neck, girlish giggle, and mind like a steel trap, what’s not to love? Mr Hannity, is that your lunch? Maybe it _was_… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/89 "2018-08-22T19:57:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to learn that left-leaning and right-leaning media outlets disagree on which stories merit the most coverage. > [@Bricker](#): > > Do you expect Fox News’ ratings to decline as the result of their poor coverage? > > By the way, do you happen to know which cable news channel is in first place in viewership? There’s no denying that conservatives love their Tooth Fairy news. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/90 "2018-08-22T20:02:20Z")
Dwarves and elves, tolerant. Trolls, love 'em. But _fairies_? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/91 "2018-08-22T20:04:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Fox News Retakes Primetime Ratings Lead From MSNBC, But Maddow Still No. 1** > _Forbes_, here. [Fox News Retakes Primetime Ratings Lead From MSNBC, But Maddow Still No. 1](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brettedkins/2017/07/28/fox-news-retakes-primetime-ratings-lead-from-msnbc-but-maddow-still-no-1/#20e2dbc52ff5) > > Swan’s neck, girlish giggle, and mind like a steel trap, what’s not to love? Mr Hannity, is that your lunch? Maybe it _was_… That story is from 2017. July of 2018, should it interest you, is [summarized](https://www.scribd.com/document/385132545/July-2018-Cable-News-Ranker-Total-Viewers#from_embed) here. Key takeaways: - Total Viewers: Hannity (3,365,000), Tucker Carlson Tonight (2,695,000), Rachel Maddow Show (2,670,000), The Ingraham Angle (2,613,000), The Five (2,240,000), Special Report with Bret Baier (2,129,000), Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell (2,117,000), The Story with Martha MacCallum (1,943,000), All In with Chris Hayes (1,677,000), Outnumbered (1,564,000) - Adults 25-54: Hannity (623,000), Tucker Carlson Tonight (524,000), Rachel Maddow Show (511,000), The Ingraham Angle (489,000), The Five (393,000), Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell (386,000), The Story with Martha MacCallum (384,000), Special Report with Bret Baier (378,000), Cuomo Prime Time (362,000). Mornings, Fox & Friends set its 201st month as the No. 1 cable news program in its timeslot with an average of 1.5 million in total viewers and 301,000 with the 25-54 demo. From 9 a.m.-12 p.m. ET, America’s Newsroom anchored by Sandra Smith and Bill Hemmer delivered 1.6 million in total viewers and 288,000 with A25-54. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/92 "2018-08-22T20:05:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > By the way, do you happen to know which cable news channel is in first place in viewership? **Bricker** you know this is a bullshit statement. That’s because RW-ers only have one channel to turn to. The LW-ers are divided among several channels. Combine the viewership of all those channels, and now compare them to fox. The fact that any one of these channels can come with in striking distance to Fox makes them look laughably bad. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/93 "2018-08-22T20:10:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Can you not argue with what was actually said, that using this as a distraction would backfire on the national conversation? A distraction? Uh, no, this is an issue that’s been debated, argued, and ranted about ever since Trump became President. Or at least it hit it’s fevered pitch after his election. As to your second point, how could this possibly backfire on the president? Both of your comments seem completely out of touch with the reality of what’s been going on lately, if not for a while now. In fact it could be argued it’s one of the main reasons Trump was elected in the first place - illegal immigration/unfettered open immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/94 "2018-08-22T20:18:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know about “should”, but it probably will. If you don’t already understand, at least vaguely, why that is, then I doubt I could explain it to you. I guess you’ll just have to watch and see. It probably will, but only because _people are irrational_. They don’t shut up and multiply. They don’t actually examine statistics. They don’t fact-check. At least, a sizeable portion of them. The degree to which this incident will shift the immigration debate is the degree to which the American populace is easy to manipulate by racist demagogues. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/95 "2018-08-22T20:20:04Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > How so? I guess the OP wasn’t actually interested in debating that point. The rest of the OP is requesting an opinion poll. But maybe we’ll get some clarification now that he is posting again. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/96 "2018-08-22T20:20:56Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > **Bricker** you know this is a bullshit statement. It’s not a bullshit statement. It’s a question, for which the answer is “Fox News.” This is a matter of clear, citable fact. I think perhaps you’re arguing that my intended inference is weak, for the reason you offer. But even this is not correct, because you mistake my intended inference. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/97 "2018-08-22T20:25:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not a bullshit statement. It’s a question, for which the answer is “Fox News.” This is a matter of clear, citable fact. > > I think perhaps you’re arguing that my intended inference is weak, for the reason you offer. > > But even this is not correct, because you mistake my intended inference. It’s weak and bullshit because it doesn’t address the criticism of Fox News of that post and has nothing to do with the thread topic. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/98 "2018-08-22T20:27:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not a bullshit statement. It’s a question, for which the answer is “Fox News.” This is a matter of clear, citable fact. > > I think perhaps you’re arguing that my intended inference is weak, for the reason you offer. > > But even this is not correct, because you mistake my intended inference. So enlighten me: What _was_ your intended inference? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/99 "2018-08-22T20:36:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I find it very politically convenient that this woman was killed by an illegal immigrant. But then, I’m not privy to any of the details here. I don’t know if this is a slam-dunk or just slim evidence here. Just wanted to repeated my original statement here. Now for the next few volleys: > [@Riemann](#): > > This is a very unwise argument, since it appears to concede that some inference about illegal immigrants in general does hinge on the facts of this one case. > [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems like a legitimate argument to me. Because yes, some inference about illegal immigrants WILL be made by certain people, and it won’t be a good one. > [@Riemann](#): > > If there’s _evidence_ of him being framed by local Trumpists with an agenda, that’s another matter, with depressing implications about our society. But I think you need to be careful about speculation when (so far as I’m aware) at the moment there’s not a shred of evidence to support this notion. I just want to clarify that I, personally, am not familiar with ANY evidence in this crime. I honestly have not looked into it. I don’t what’s been turned up or what hasn’t. I don’t know if this accused is a genuine illegal alien or is actually here legally (apparently, there is some dispute about that). I don’t know if there is or isn’t a “frame up”, or if so, who would be behind it. It was my observation that, given the current administration’s stance on immigrants in general and Mexicans more specifically that it’s _awfully convenient_ for there to be a prominent case where a murdered young white woman has a (maybe) illegal alien as the chief suspect. > [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t care if it is a frame up, or if he really did do it. It’s politically convenient for those pressing the “Illegal Immigrants are murdering thugs!” angle. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If it’s a frame up, and an innocent man is going to be imprisoned for life for a crime he didn’t commit, we should all care about that. I’d urge you to reconsider. I agree - and the fact that this might be a frame-up is even considered puts the current administration in a bad light. I don’t believe that would have come up under 45’s predecessors, regardless of which side of the aisle they came from. > [@Riemann](#): > > I’ve notice that this tends to conveniently happen at the stage of a discussion when you realize that maybe you’re wrong. I’m happy to have a discussion with you, but I think this time it’s your turn reread what I wrote earlier to see if you get my point, rather than putting the burden on me to spell it out. You may disagree, but I think my point was pretty clear. I am also having trouble understanding your posts. It’s pretty rare that \*\*Manson1972 \*\*and I agree on anything, but in this case we do. What you said might be clear to you, but it’s not to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/100 "2018-08-22T20:36:39Z")
Mollie Tibbetts’ cousin is telling Fox News to keep her name out of their mouths. > > > Candace Owens @RealCandaceO [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=6)