# Mollie Tibbetts missing college student (allegedly) killed by illegal alien **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030 "2018-08-22T06:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/101 "2018-08-22T20:39:03Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > …Trump was elected in the first place - illegal immigration/unfettered open immigration. The question is, itself, a lie. Its like the question of deporting and banning Muslims/or adopting _Sharia_ law. Its not a debatable question because the choice is absurd. A question like “Admit and regulate temporary agricultural workers or iceberg lettuce at $10 a head?” From here, that’s a no-brainer, but freak freely… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/102 "2018-08-22T20:46:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Mollie Tibbetts’ cousin is telling Fox News to keep her name out of their mouths. > [https://twitter.com/samlucasss/status/1032057891224805376](https://twitter.com/samlucasss/status/1032057891224805376) So now we’re _not_ supposed to #SayHerName? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/103 "2018-08-22T20:48:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I agree - and the fact that this might be a frame-up is even considered puts the current administration in a bad light. I don’t believe that would have come up under 45’s predecessors, regardless of which side of the aisle they came from. Right, it’s not like anyone said that 9-11 as an inside job or that a bunch of Clinton problems were assassinated. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/104 "2018-08-22T20:54:27Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Mollie Tibbetts’ cousin is telling Fox News to keep her name out of their mouths. > [https://twitter.com/samlucasss/status/1032057891224805376](https://twitter.com/samlucasss/status/1032057891224805376) And her aunt’s comments: [https://twitter.com/pamela\_vogel/status/1032322147853713409](https://twitter.com/pamela_vogel/status/1032322147853713409) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/105 "2018-08-22T20:55:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > … I agree - and the fact that this might be a frame-up is even considered puts the current administration in a bad light. I don’t believe that would have come up under 45’s predecessors, regardless of which side of the aisle they came from. … I think it puts the Doper(s) that suggested such a wild and implausible conspiracy theory in a bad light, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/106 "2018-08-22T20:56:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So now we’re _not_ supposed to #SayHerName? My actual response to this really can’t be posted outside of the pit, but when the family of the victim comes forward and says, “Stop politicizing the murder of my family member you racist shitheels” (as one might when one finds one’s family member has become the latest hobby horse of the republican party), it is a _drastically different situation_ than the one #SayHerName applies to. Again, for the record, here’s the tweet in question: hey i’m a member of mollie’s family and we are not so fucking small-minded that we generalize a whole population based on some bad individuals. now stop being a fucking snake and using my cousins death as political propaganda. take her name out of your mouth. She’s talking about everyone who wants to use her sister as a political cudgel _against the political beliefs her sister held_. Perhaps we should respect that, in a way Fox News probably won’t, and not continue this thread. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/107 "2018-08-22T21:07:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > My actual response to this really can’t be posted outside of the pit, but when the family of the victim comes forward and says, “Stop politicizing the murder of my family member you racist shitheels” (as one might when one finds one’s family member has become the latest hobby horse of the republican party), it is a _drastically different situation_ than the one #SayHerName applies to. > > Again, for the record, here’s the tweet in question: > > hey i’m a member of mollie’s family and we are not so fucking small-minded that we generalize a whole population based on some bad individuals. now stop being a fucking snake and using my cousins death as political propaganda. take her name out of your mouth. > > She’s talking about everyone who wants to use her sister as a political cudgel _against the political beliefs her sister held_. Perhaps we should respect that, in a way Fox News probably won’t, and not continue this thread. Kudos to you for formulating one that stays within the rules of this forum. I wonder if she has objected to any of the leftist “but the murderer was employed by a Republican” commentary. I suspect not. I suspect her outrage at the politicization only goes one way due to her own partisan leanings. For the record, I’m delighted to still live in a land where people still have a right to free speech and cousins and aunts of dead women aren’t given veto power over what others say or discuss. You’re certainly free to leave if you no longer wish to participate in the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/108 "2018-08-22T21:10:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Kudos to you for formulating one that stays within the rules of this forum. > > I wonder if she has objected to any of the leftist “but the murderer was employed by a Republican” commentary. I suspect not. I suspect her outrage at the politicization only goes one way due to her own partisan leanings. > > For the record, I’m delighted to still live in a land where people still have a right to free speech and cousins and aunts of dead women aren’t given veto power over what others say or discuss. You’re certainly free to leave if you no longer wish to participate in the discussion. Of course you did say that “of course” we should support the victim’s family… Yeah, never mind that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/109 "2018-08-22T21:11:08Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … She’s talking about everyone who wants to use her sister as a political cudgel _against the political beliefs her sister held_. … Does this sentence mean she thinks its okay to user her cousin as a political cudgel _for_ the political beliefs her sister held? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/110 "2018-08-22T21:11:11Z")
It’s not a free speech issue, it’s a _tact_ issue. As in, the relative of a dead girl is asking, “Please don’t use my sister’s death as political propaganda”, and _you are saying “no”_. Well, not “no”, rather, “No, and you can’t stop me because _free speech_!”, which somehow makes it worse. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/111 "2018-08-22T21:15:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course you did say that “of course” we should support the victim’s family… > > Yeah, never mind that. :rolleyes: I said “Of course” to “the victim’s family does deserve condolences and support.” I certainly didn’t think that meant they deserved our blind obedience and acquiescence to any and all requests they may make. I meant that we should be sympathetic to the heartache they’re feeling, and perhaps contribute to their GoFundMe page or take them dinner or something. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/112 "2018-08-22T21:25:45Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > It’s not a free speech issue, it’s a _tact_ issue. As in, the relative of a dead girl is asking, “Please don’t use my sister’s death as political propaganda”, and _you are saying “no”_. Well, not “no”, rather, “No, and you can’t stop me because _free speech_!”, which somehow makes it worse. ☹ Do you imagine that the Sandy Hook victims’ families, or the Parkland victims’ families were all unanimous in their desire to see their family members’ deaths used as political propaganda? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/113 "2018-08-22T21:39:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I said “Of course” to “the victim’s family does deserve condolences and support.” I certainly didn’t think that meant they deserved our blind obedience and acquiescence to any and all requests they may make. I meant that we should be sympathetic to the heartache they’re feeling, and perhaps contribute to their GoFundMe page or take them dinner or something. Like **Budget Player Cadet** said, no tact at all. And things like that are a big factor on why I’m more confident that there will be a backlash alright, but it is the reverse of what many conservatives like Trump expect. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/114 "2018-08-22T23:29:56Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > . . . It’s not as if illegal aliens replace native born (or legal immigrant) criminals. They add to the number of criminals. . . Maybe, maybe not The violent crime rate does not correlate at all with unauthorized immigrant population. But It does with socio-economic indicators (i.e.: unemployment rate, percentage of residents under the poverty line, median income, and median education rate). As the population of a city increases if its s-e indicators stay constant then so does its overall crime rate. And that’s true all across the country regardless of the influence of immigration. Whether your city grows due to native population growth or from immigration, the crime rate remains constant. If your city experiences an increase of criminal activity from its immigrants and the overall crime rate does not rise it seems to me that the immigrant criminals are replacing the native-born ones. (I can hear the cries already: “Those illegals are taking our crime jobs!”) Let’s look at it from another perspective. Take Jeff Sessions’ favorite Alabama town. Albertville, at 30% has one of the highest immigrant population in the country and 7.5 times the Alabama average, yet the violent crime rate is ¼ the state average. Let me repeat: Albertville has 7.5 times as many immigrants as the rest of Alabama with 25% the crime. Which indicates to me that immigrants commit crimes at significantly lower rates than natives, so they actually reduce crime. Now you may say that I cherry picked the data; that for every town like Albertville you can find one that shows the opposite. And that just because socio-economic indicators track with rates of violent crimes, proves nothing about cause and effect. And you’d be right. The causes and contributing factors of violent crime are myriad, complex, and a little mysterious. But as we sit here there is no evidence that I know of that shows any consistent correlation between immigration and crime. **NONE** So, pointing at an immigrant murderer and saying that if he was not here there would have been less crime is like pointing at a bird and saying: every year, when the robins come back to town the heavy rains also come. Which leads to flooding, which leads to property damage and deaths. So if we keep out the robins there will be less flooding. . . Robins = Death! mc ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/115 "2018-08-23T01:11:38Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > The violent crime rate does not correlate at all with unauthorized immigrant population. Does that make a lick of sense when we’re talking about what some are doing when they’re here? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/116 "2018-08-23T01:11:42Z")
I am interested if the farmers in Iowa are willing to give up on their itinerant farm workers to make sure no illegal aliens are anywhere near the good folk of Iowa? The accused murderer worked at a farm that [did not use the E-Verify system](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-murder-suspect-illegal-immigrant-cristhian-rivera-allegedly-passed-e-verify-system.html). So is it on that farm for enabling this illegal immigrant to stay? I can tell you those farmers rely on itinerant farm workers so I’m curious where the OP thinks blame should lie? This guy was not hiding among the masses of some metropolis. He was in Iowa. Working on a farm. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/117 "2018-08-23T01:16:32Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Does that make a lick of sense when we’re talking about what some are doing when they’re here? Did you even read the part of the quote you cut out? > [@](#): > > But It does with socio-economic indicators (i.e.: unemployment rate, percentage of residents under the poverty line, median income, and median education rate). As the population of a city increases if its s-e indicators stay constant then so does its overall crime rate. And that’s true all across the country regardless of the influence of immigration. Whether your city grows due to native population growth or from immigration, the crime rate remains constant. If your city experiences an increase of criminal activity from its immigrants and the overall crime rate does not rise it seems to me that the immigrant criminals are replacing the native-born ones. (I can hear the cries already: “Those illegals are taking our crime jobs!”) ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/118 "2018-08-23T01:22:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The question is, itself, a lie. Its like the question of deporting and banning Muslims/or adopting _Sharia_ law. Its not a debatable question because the choice is absurd Then cut the absurdness, oh wise one. Where do you draw the lines? You’re great (in some peoples minds) at ridiculing and mocking those you feel inferior to your extreme intellect. The thing is, you never really ever say anything. Please, please, say what you’d like to see happen regarding the issue, debate, of illegal immigration. Did this incident help your cause or hurt it? I expect a non-answer, unfunny quip, or otherwise. You’re incapable of anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/119 "2018-08-23T03:23:11Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > but, I agree that this could well play into the narrative that the border needs a wall. Because most people only crimes one at a time and fail to see that if it wasn’t this girl killed by this man, it would’ve been some other girl by some other man. > > mc Huh? This doesn’t make sense. If Killer A and Killer B are both in America, they’ll both kill victims. They won’t refrain from killing victims because “the other guy’s killing people, too.” It’s not a capped limit. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030/120 "2018-08-23T04:28:56Z")
The barely contained jubilation Trump backers have for this poor woman’s gruesome murder is disgusting, though not surprising. It’s justified though. Trump’s base is stupid and/or racist enough that they can’t and/or don’t want to figure out that out of a population of 11 million people there will be some rapists and murderers. #MAGA [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mollie-tibbetts-missing-college-student-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-alien/820030.md?page=7)