# Mom Busts Dad For 15 Year Old Custodial "Kidnap" -- Now What? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 7, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280 "2010-06-07T15:17:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/161 "2010-06-09T15:56:13Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > You got it, its a planet, not a “planet” How about Pluto? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/162 "2010-06-09T16:02:03Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > How about Pluto? Apparently, you didn’t get it. If called to name a planet, most wouldn’t name Neptune. This doesn’t make Neptune a “planet”. Neptune is a planet _without_ quote marks. Custodial kidnapping is kidnapping without quote marks, despite how some people you converse with would personally define the word. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/163 "2010-06-09T16:07:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Apparently, you didn’t get it. If called to name a planet, most wouldn’t name Neptune. This doesn’t make Neptune a “planet”. Neptune is a planet _without_ quote marks. Custodial kidnapping is kidnapping without quote marks, despite how some people you converse with would personally define the word. Most wouldn’t name Pluto. And that is partly because astronomers now define Pluto as a “minor planet,” or . . . “planet.” ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/164 "2010-06-09T16:11:22Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > The “primary caregiver” definition is just a legal fig leaf for an essentially sexist policy. The definition was made in full knowledge that the overwhelming number of marriages where one spouse works are set up so that the man works, whilst the woman stays at home. So of course the 84% figure is going to accord with the number of women who are SAHM, but that completely ignores the question of whether the definition of “primary caregiver” you’ve just given is a suitable and fair definition in the first place. You do realize, of course, that one doesn’t need to be a SAHM to be the primary caregiver? And that SAHM don’t account for anything like 84% of mothers in divorce cases? That makes the whole “women are more likely to be SAHP, so the system is inherently unfair” something of a red herring, really. That 84% is what it is because working moms still in this day and age do a disproportionate amount of the housework and childcare–most surveys I’ve seen indicate that working moms do roughly 60-70% of it. What that means is that whether a mom works or not, she’s usually the one dishing up the meals, doing the laundry, wiping the poopy butts, changing the peed-on sheets in the middle of the night, staying home when someone is sick, doing the hauling hither and yon for clubs, lessons, birthday parties. Leaving the kids with her is going to just plain cause less disruption in their day-to-day life, and barring some other overpowering negative factor like she’s a criminal, that tends to be a major consideration in determining what’s in the best interests of the child. Honestly, this is only sexist to the extent that the housework and childcare tends to be split unevenly among working couples. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/165 "2010-06-09T16:11:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sure the parents of all those children that have been kidnapped over the years would have a bone to pick with you, as you seem to think that most of them weren’t sincere in their grief and desperation. Especially the ones that do not have the financial resources to hire lawyers and private investigators. Finding somebody that doesn’t want to be found is not easy, nor is it cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/166 "2010-06-09T16:20:05Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Most wouldn’t name Pluto. And that is partly because astronomers now define Pluto as a “minor planet,” or . . . “planet.” And when the court system refers to “kidnapping” instead of kidnapping, you might have a case. They don’t. You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/167 "2010-06-09T16:24:37Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Especially the ones that do not have the financial resources to hire lawyers and private investigators. Finding somebody that doesn’t want to be found is not easy, nor is it cheap. I have a pretty cheap investigative option for finding people living under their real name. > **[Google](https://www.google.com)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/168 "2010-06-09T16:28:50Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I have a pretty cheap investigative option for finding people living under their real name. > > [http://www.google.com](http://www.google.com) Yep, if only she had had the brains to use Google and Facebook _15 years ago._:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/169 "2010-06-09T16:31:19Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I have a pretty cheap investigative option for finding people living under their real name. > > [http://www.google.com](http://www.google.com) It’s not that easy, and if you’re a lawyer, you ought to know that. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/170 "2010-06-09T16:32:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And when the court system refers to “kidnapping” instead of kidnapping, you might have a case. > They don’t. > You don’t. I think that what **Huerta88** is trying to say, though, is that even though the law doesn’t draw a distinction between custodial kidnapping and stranger abduction, he believes that custodial kidnapping is less serious or less wrong. You, obviously, disagree. It seems like your debate would be more constructive if you would explain why you think custodial kidnapping is as bad a thing as stranger abduction, and if he would explain why he thinks it isn’t rather than just arguing whether the term should have quotations around it. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/171 "2010-06-09T16:35:00Z")
[QUOTE=CrazyCatLady] That 84% is what it is because working moms still in this day and age do a disproportionate amount of the housework and childcare–most surveys I’ve seen indicate that working moms do roughly 60-70% of it. [/quote] And how many hours do these women work at their jobs compared to their husbands? Without that information, the surveys are essentially useless. If the wife is working part time, or reduced hours, and doing 60%-70% of household work compared to a man working full time, with overtime, and doing 30%-40% (in accordance with your own figures), then what? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/172 "2010-06-09T16:35:37Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think that what **Huerta88** is trying to say, though, is that even though the law doesn’t draw a distinction between custodial kidnapping and stranger abduction, he believes that custodial kidnapping is less serious or less wrong. You, obviously, disagree. > > It seems like your debate would be more constructive if you would explain why you think custodial kidnapping is as bad a thing as stranger abduction, and if he would explain why he thinks it isn’t rather than just arguing whether the term should have quotations around it. It wouldn’t bother me as much, though I would still disagree, if he said that custodial kidnapping isn’t as great a crime as non-custodial kidnapping. But by using quote marks, he is clearly saying that it isn’t _really_ kidnapping at all. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/173 "2010-06-09T16:36:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yep, if only she had had the brains to use Google and Facebook _15 years ago._:dubious: When was it your impression Google launched? Five weeks ago? It’s been around since 1998, and it was hardly the first Internet search engine, and [anywho.com](http://anywho.com) has been around IIRC longer than that for finding phone listings of people living under their real names. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/174 "2010-06-09T16:39:59Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It’s not that easy, and if you’re a lawyer, you ought to know that. . . . . but . . . sometimes it is that easy. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/175 "2010-06-09T16:41:35Z")
And of course not being caught up on modern technology that came about after your adulthood, and/or not being particularly bright should preclude you from— wait, I don’t want to put words in your mouth here— what exactly is point you’re trying to make and how is relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/176 "2010-06-09T16:48:25Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > And of course not being caught up on modern technology that came about after your adulthood, and/or not being particularly bright should preclude you from— wait, I don’t want to put words in your mouth here— what exactly is point you’re trying to make and how is relevant? The facts are not inconsistent with mom being a dumbass, having been off on a 15 year bender, having been an indifferent parent who didn’t take the simplest steps to track down her dearly departed kids until last week, which is not inconsistent with, hey, maybe dad was the better parent. For purposes of advancing the ball, I will agree with getting rid of the quotes that are freaking people out and saying “abduction as defined by unlawfully defying a custody order and taking a kid away is [generally – not always] a less serious crime than stranger abduction, but both are [I’ve never denied this] legally defined as kidnapping.” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/177 "2010-06-09T16:49:00Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > When was it your impression Google launched? Five weeks ago? It’s been around since 1998, and it was hardly the first Internet search engine, and [anywho.com](http://anywho.com) has been around IIRC longer than that for finding phone listings of people living under their real names. You are jumping through hoops while bending over backwards to attempt to blame the victim and justify the criminal actions of the father in this case. He did not exhaust his legal remedies, so any claim of necessity fails. He is is willful, deliberate, and contumacious contempt of Court. Spare me the bullshit about the system being unfair, favoring women, blah blah blah. We live under the rule of law. This guy ignored the law because he felt like it. He is also likely guilty of kidnapping. A felonious crime. He belongs in prison. Doesn’t matter if he thinks he got a raw deal in the custody case or not. That’s not a defense to a charge of kidnapping. Morally, he stole the mother’s rights–as determined by a Court of competent jurisdiction–and deprived her of any contact with her children for 15 years. In that time, it is quite likely that he effectively poisoned the well by telling the children all sorts of horrible things about the mother. The kids have no ability to fact check whatever he told them. The mother, and the children, have suffered irreparable harm because of his wrongful act. Bottom line, there is no justification or excuse for his action. Zero. Zilch. Zippo. The Big Goose Egg. Nada. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/178 "2010-06-09T16:52:37Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > How about Pluto? The press has not indicated whether or not he stole the kid’s dog in addition to kidnapping the kids. (True story: a previous client spent over $40,000.00 fighting over termporary possession of a couple of pet dogs. Some people are just plain nuts.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/179 "2010-06-09T16:54:03Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > . . . . but . . . sometimes it is that easy. Gee, why haven’t you opened up a detective agency, then? You could make millions finding all those kids missing due to custodial kidnapping. What exactly do you know that all those public and private detectives don’t? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280/180 "2010-06-09T17:09:42Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I don’t; he’s a kidnapper and should be punished to the full extent of the law. Not that simple. He took his own kids and presumably raised them well for 15 years. They weren’t strangers . They were not mistreated. Tossing him in jail for 20 years like a common kidnapper would also be wrong. The kids would be very resentful. This story can not have a good ending. Forget vengeance. What is the best thing for the kids now? The mother will be in an ugly place with then if the father goes to jail or not. They do not know her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mom-busts-dad-for-15-year-old-custodial-kidnap-now-what/542280.md?page=10)