# Moments where a series tone changed for better or for worse **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 18, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368 "2008-06-18T17:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/1 "2008-06-18T17:29:12Z")
I was just thinking about several long lived series and how the tone of the show changed over time. For instance the first two seasons of MASH were more zany madcapped adventures of the doctors but gradualy the show became preachy. Good times shifted from a show about Florida Evans and her family to the JJ show. Likewise Happy days focus shifted from Richie and the 50s to the Fonzie show. As such the show became more cartoonish and lost some of the flavour of the 50s nostalga and look the first few seasons had. Any other shows you can think of where a change was actually for the better? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/2 "2008-06-18T17:41:51Z")
> [@](#): > > For instance the first two seasons of MASH were more zany madcapped adventures of the doctors but gradualy the show became preachy. I think that oversimplifies the show. It was on for 12 years, after all – plenty of time to change more than once. the first season or two the characters were much more superficial, and hadn’t achieved the form they later would. The show featured some ludicrous things they’d never think of later on (Klinger hang-gliding out). Radar was a larcenous character, stealing a jeep by shipping it home piece by piece. The show changed for the better. Things got more realistic, and they started paying attention to actual histotry a bit. The characters jelled. There always was an undercurrent of seriousness – the show relied on a tension between the deep drama of life-or-death surgery in a war zone with the manic release the doctors used to keep their sanity, but it got more believable. It was always somewhat preachy – it had to be. But they got a good balance for quite a while. I wasn’t one of those who thought it got too preachy, but I could understand those who did. After such a long run, it’s easy to keep coming up with ideas. It would’ve been worse if they lost that anchor of angst and just been zany, I think (I think Northern Exposure lost track of its characters and what they should be, and its inner core of whacko mysticism in its last season or two, and got really bad.) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/3 "2008-06-18T17:51:01Z")
The Simpsons initially felt very realistic for an animated series, very grounded in reality…it became funnier (IMHO) and more whimsical as it progressed, but then got to the point where it was almost too weird and out there. I’m thinking of season one where Homer wants them to be a normal, happy family after the picnic at Mr. Burns’s mansion (where surprisingly, it’s Marge, not Homer, who gets tanked), versus something like Cape Fear in season…four? five?..and from then on, post ten, it was just plain bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/4 "2008-06-18T17:52:58Z")
**Dark Shadows** was just a moody soap opera…until they added ghosts and then a vampire. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/5 "2008-06-18T18:23:42Z")
_Rosanne_ started out as a sitcom about a working-class family. It was incredibly realistic…the sarcasm could have come right out of my family’s conversations. Then in the last couple of seasons, it went off the rails…they won the lottery and started spending time with rich people, started having stunt-cast guest stars, just goofy stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/6 "2008-06-18T18:34:27Z")
Is it even fair to mention _Doctor Who_? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/7 "2008-06-18T18:45:34Z")
[QUOTE=Mrs. Cake] Is it even fair to mention _Doctor Who_? [/QUOTE] God…it could have a whole thread of its own on the relative merits of each of the Doctors. I bet that’d have some fireworks in it, too… ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/8 "2008-06-18T18:46:35Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] God…it could have a whole thread of its own on the relative merits of each of the Doctors. I bet that’d have some fireworks in it, too… [/QUOTE] Now that would be an interesting thread too! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/9 "2008-06-18T18:47:14Z")
_South Park_ got a lot more libertarian-preachy in the fourth or fifth season, I think. See [Seasonal Rot.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeasonalRot) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/10 "2008-06-18T19:08:46Z")
[QUOTE=kingpengvin] Now that would be an interesting thread too! [/QUOTE] [Let’s hope!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=472290) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/11 "2008-06-18T19:23:10Z")
Good call on the Simpsons, **Freudian Slit**. There were some big changes. For starters, the show was mostly about Bart in the beginning. It became more Homer-centric around season three, although of course they developed the rest of the family over time. It was more realistic back then, and less funny even though I think they did some very clever satire. The producers talk about the changes in Homer a lot and lay it out pretty clearly: Homer was a regular guy in the beginning, basically a slow-witted EveryDad. I’m still a fan, but today he’s an indestructable semiretarded musical savant, among other qualities, and basically every character except maybe Bart and Lisa has gone through similar distortions over time. “Seasonal rot” sounds like an irritatingly cutesy term, but this does happen to TV shows over time, and to comedies in particular because they have to top themselves again and again. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/12 "2008-06-18T20:04:15Z")
I can’t date the turnover point, but _Monk_ was better when it was about a mentally ill but brilliant detective solving murders. Somehow, someone decided to make it the “let’s all laugh at the funny neatnik dweeb” show. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/13 "2008-06-18T20:07:40Z")
In its first two seasons, IIRC, _Sliders_ explored a different alternate-history scenario in every episode. Then they jumped the shark and started using the alternate worlds as backdrops for standard hackneyed SF/fantasy plots. Hello? **Zombies?** ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/14 "2008-06-18T20:14:58Z")
[QUOTE=teela brown] I can’t date the turnover point, but _Monk_ was better when it was about a mentally ill but brilliant detective solving murders. Somehow, someone decided to make it the “let’s all laugh at the funny neatnik dweeb” show. [/QUOTE] For sure. They also made it seem in early episodes that pre Trudy’s death, Monk was a little on the obsessive side, but a damned fine cop. Afterwards…he could no longer function. Now? Every flashback/reference to him in the old days makes him seem like a barely functioning socially anxious bag of nerves. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/15 "2008-06-18T20:20:00Z")
It’s already being discussed in the “star departure” thread, but I’ll throw out The Daily Show, which became really different after Jon Stewart replaced Craig Kilborn. Stewart made it a great satire of politics and the news media, and it’s become very influential. Under Kilborn, it was sometimes funny but mostly silly and light, and not really that different from something like Talk Soup. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/16 "2008-06-18T20:36:08Z")
I was just thinking about this with respect to one of my favorite shows, the American version of **The Office**. The first (very short) season, while funny, basically just maintains the tone and conceipt of the British version: Michael Scott is a totally self-absorbed unaware douchebag, does awkward things, and Jim moons after Pam. The first episode of season 2 is **The Dundees** , and there’s a crucial moment where Michael gives a Dundee to Pam, and we all assume that he’s going to give her “longest engagement” for the nth consecutive year, and instead he gives her “whitest sneakers”. And she is SO happy, and we start to see the decency and vulnerability that Michael has. Then later, things are pretty much falling apart under the weight of Michael being Michael, and he gives an award to Kevin for stinking up the bathroom, and there is dead silence, and then Pam starts loudly cheering and getting enthusiastic, and then everyone else does to, and everyone has a great time, and suddenly the dynamics are more complicated and the characters are deeper, but it’s still hell of funny. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/17 "2008-06-19T04:31:38Z")
**The Practice** goes from real drama to sappy melodrama in six episodes. The problem was that their money problems go away and they become famous in episode six. It was a really good six episodes though. You can watch them on hulu if you want. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/18 "2008-06-19T12:37:44Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] In its first two seasons, IIRC, _Sliders_ explored a different alternate-history scenario in every episode. Then they jumped the shark and started using the alternate worlds as backdrops for standard hackneyed SF/fantasy plots. Hello? **Zombies?** [/QUOTE] No, they started doing that in the first season. Episode 3: “In a world where England won the Revolutionary War, the Sliders are embroiled in an assassination plot involving the heir to the throne and an evil Sheriff of San Francisco.” A pretty common alternate history setting, with a plot out of any Ruritanian romance. Episode 4: “When Wade is infected with a deadly virus on an Earth wracked by an epidemic, Rembrandt and Arturo race to find a cure and free Quinn from a Gestapo-like health agency.” Other than the health agency, this is the plot for about five Star Trek episodes (e.g., Miri). Episode 6: “Arturo finds himself in a potentially deadly mayoral race in a world where men are treated as “the weaker sex” and women hold the positions of power and influence.” There was an entire TV show (“All that Glitters” 1977), based on this premise. Episode 9: “Wade finds that she has money to burn when she wins the lottery in a seemingly utopian world, but she soon discovers that her silver cloud has a very dark lining.” Ever hear of Shirley Jackson? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/19 "2008-06-19T12:50:46Z")
**Family Ties** was supposed to be about the parents, but Michael J. Fox just took over the show. Meredith Baxter was not pleased with this development. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368/20 "2008-06-19T13:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=kingpengvin] Any other shows you can think of where a change was actually for the better? [/QUOTE] In Star Trek : The Next Generation, when Riker [grew the beard](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard), and the show in general just . . improved, matured, whatever you want to call it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moments-where-a-series-tone-changed-for-better-or-for-worse/453368.md?page=2)