# Mommie Dearest--Do You Believe It? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 14, 2001, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358 "2001-10-14T13:06:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/1 "2001-10-14T13:06:50Z")
I watched the odd movie _Mommie Dearest_ last night for the first time. I know it was based on a true-story told by Christina Crawford. But since it’s only in her POV, do you think it’s true? Personally, I do. Besides Christina’s POV, I have read that Joan Crawford wasn’t the nicest woman to work with (i.e. Bette Davis). By the way, what was with the son, Christopher? Young Christina didn’t seem to age at all but Christopher did, even though he was younger than her. Plus, he never seems to be around. I asked where he was at one point and my mom said, “I think he grew up to be Niles Crane.” 😃 The little Christopher did look a lot like a young Niles Crane. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/2 "2001-10-14T20:50:50Z")
bean, This is based on memory, but I recall reading that Christina’s version of events have been disputed by people who knew the family, and IIRC, even by her brother. If I had to guess I would say that Joan Crawford probably wasn’t the greatest mother, but perhaps the film exaggerates. And Bette Davis calling Joan Crawford “not nice” sort of strikes me like this neat saying I just made up this morning: “Pot, meet kettle.” Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/3 "2001-10-14T20:56:04Z")
ol’ bean, Upon review, perhaps I mistook you, and you were saying that LIKE Bette Davis, Joan Crawford was also not nice to work with. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/4 "2001-10-15T01:04:20Z")
I saw the movie years ago, which interested me enough that I took the book out of the library. I believe it, and think Christopher disputing it could be explained by the fact that he was younger and wouldn’t remember some of the earlier events, and that some of it happened when he wasn’t around. It also seemed that Christopher was the favored child, and would probably have sided with his mother. There are lots of child abusers out there, and probably more famous ones that we haven’t heard about. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/5 "2001-10-15T05:13:37Z")
Because search doesn’t seem to be working right now, the following is my recollection only. A poster named Eve (who is no longer posting) had a number of sources inside the industry. According to them, the book was originally written by someone else and was actually fiction or about an entirely different person. It was decided that if it were about a celebrity, it would sell a lot better. So it was rewritten and sold very well. I’m not saying that abuse never occurs or celebrities never abuse their kids. These things do sometimes occur. I am saying that there is doubt about this particular case. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/6 "2001-10-15T12:27:28Z")
I read a second biography of Joan Crawford, written by Bob Thomas, who had written other acurate show biz bios. He confirms much of the abuse Joan heaped upon Christine and her brother Christopher. It was her Joan’s younger adopted daughters–“the twins”–who disputed Christina’s book. They were very young when Tina was living at home, and it’s possible they never saw much of the abuse and that Mommy Dearest explained it away. Bette Davis is quoted in Thomas’s book as saying “Joan tried to be all things to all people. I just wish she hadn’t tried to be a mother.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/7 "2001-10-15T12:35:14Z")
I read a second biography of Joan Crawford by Bob Thomas, who has written several accurate show biz bios. He cofirms much of the abuse Joan heaped upon Christine and Christopher. Christine’s book was disputed by Joan’s two younger daughters–“the twins”–who were much younger than Christine, and either didn’t see much of the abuse, or had it explained away by Mommie Dearest. The book’s style is very similar to Christine’s other books, so I doubt it was ghost written. ---
**Author:** ![SaxFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SaxFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaxFace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/8 "2001-10-15T17:08:04Z")
Here’s the thread that **rowrrbazzle** remembered: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42039](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42039) This is what Eve (an undisputed expert) wrote: > [@](#): > > Now. “Mommie Dearest.” I’ve been through this before, but it’s a VERY old thread. “M.D.” started out as a typical star’s-daughter memoir. It was combined with a fictional novel called “The Hype,” from which all the famous scenes were taken (the wire hangers, the rose bush, etc.). Joan’s other children have said time and time again that NONE OF THIS EVER HAPPENED, but no one wants to hear that. Yes, Joan was a too-strict mother and yes, she had a drinking problem in the 1940s and '50s—she herself readily admitted all of this. But Christina was a vengeful, unmanageable and emotionally disturbed girl who was simply getting back at Joan after she’d been cut out of the will. I think I had looked up _The Hype_ on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) and got some more information. Bottom line, “Mommie Dearest” is mostly bull. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/9 "2001-10-15T17:08:11Z")
While the movie was high camp, I don’t doubt that the book was based in reality. Specific incidents may have been played up or inflated in hindsight, but in all the interviews I’ve seen with Christina and all the supplemental materials I’ve read, I’ve never seen anything that convinces me that she made it up. As for why Joan’s Hollywood and family friends would say it didn’t happen, well, how many abusers commit their abuse in front of other people or people outside the family? Side note, I’d seen the movie a number of times but had never read the book. I was going in to the hospital for some surgery a few years ago. I’d bought an old used paperback and though it would be the perfect thing to take with me to read. Wow, was that ever a mistake. never read anything this depressing when you’re scheduled to go under the knife. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/10 "2001-10-15T17:32:01Z")
The book is probably total BS, but the movie is so deliciously evil: “Don’t FUCK with me, fellas; this ain’t my first time at the rodeo!” “No more wire hangers, EVER!” “Why can’t you give me the respect I deserve? Why can’t you treat like any stranger off the street?” “Be-cause-I’m-not-one-of-your-FANS!!” ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_The_Heavy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/11 "2001-10-15T17:47:34Z")
Did you guys notice that the soap opera set in the movie was actually the Happy Days set? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/12 "2001-10-16T01:47:37Z")
What was so bad about wire hangers, anyways? ---
**Author:** ![JavaMaven1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JavaMaven1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JavaMaven1)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/13 "2001-10-16T02:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*What was so bad about wire hangers, anyways? \*\* Would _you_ hang a $300 party dress on a wire hanger? ---
**Author:** ![saepiroth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@saepiroth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saepiroth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/14 "2001-10-16T02:41:15Z")
and when did eve stop posting? i never noticed her disappearance… i guess i wasn’t looking, but i would like to know. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/15 "2001-10-16T03:23:26Z")
I’ve heard that wire hangers are bad for clothing…is that true? Never thought about it till i heard of this movie. They snag the cloth, or something? Every time I heard that line, I always thought it had something to do with Joan Crawford mercilessly beating her daughter…:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/16 "2001-10-16T14:08:53Z")
They play the movie ever year and I make my kids sit and watch it from begining to end. And then I tell them the reason I watch it is so I can get tips on how to raise them. I always thought the deal with wire hangers was because they are so thin and crease the clothing. But my question is… If she was so worried about clothing getting hung on wire hangers, why were they in the house in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/17 "2001-10-16T15:25:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kricket \* > \*\* > If she was so worried about clothing getting hung on wire hangers, why were they in the house in the first place? \*\* When you send clothes to the cleaners, they come back on wire hangers, presumably because wire hangers are much cheaper than wooden or plastic ones. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/18 "2001-10-16T15:37:26Z")
Christina Crawford recently appeared as one of the mystery guests on the “To Tell The Truth” quiz show. One of the panelists was Paula Poundstone, who joked that she always kept writing materials hidden from her kids, to keep them from ever writing about her, which was kind of eerie given her later legal problems. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/19 "2001-10-16T16:09:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SaxFace \* > **But Christina was a vengeful, unmanageable and emotionally disturbed girl who was simply getting back at Joan after she’d been cut out of the will** Did Christina become a “vengeful, unmanageable and emotinally disturbed girl” all by herself. Was she born that way? Joan adopted her as a baby; obviously, something in the way she was raised warped her. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358/20 "2001-10-16T23:20:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Annie-Xmas \* > \*\*Did Christina become a “vengeful, unmanageable and emotinally disturbed girl” all by herself. Was she born that way? Joan adopted her as a baby; obviously, something in the way she was raised warped her. \*\* Somewhere toward the beginning of the book Christina describes her childhood self as “stubborn” and “strong-willed” (I’m not quoting exactly here). There are several incidents where she takes the blame for Joan’s wrath. On the other hand, there are many more incidents in the book where the onus is on Joan. Back in Joan’s heyday, it was a well-known Hollywood secret that she abused both Christina and Christopher. Couple that with Joan’s alcoholism, and it’s a wonder that Christina is still alive, coherent, and a semi-successful author. If she wasn’t “stubborn” and “strong-willed”, I would hate to think what would’ve become of her. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mommie-dearest-do-you-believe-it/87358.md?page=2)