# Mom's "Apology" To Friends Without Kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487 "2014-05-28T18:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/201 "2014-05-31T01:07:26Z")
I’m childless (child free, without children, what the hell ever) and I was amused by the video. I’ve had friends get time sucked into raising kids, and like someone mentioned up thread, I’d much rather them do that than not actually parent their children to be good, functioning, contributing members of society. And I get it too. Now that my disabled husband requires a full-time caregiver, I have a few people in my life who don’t understand all that entails and it upsets them that we’re not as close as we once were. It also makes me sad, but it’s what you sign up for. So, in the same spirit, I try to get over myself in regards to their parenting and realize that it’s honestly not about me. It’s not personal, it’s not a reflection on our friendship, it’s none of those things. It’s simply them, in most circumstances, doing the best they can. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/202 "2014-05-31T01:09:03Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I love how you all say of COURSE we’d pitch in if a friend decided to do something highly time consuming that wasn’t children, but the only example I get is a caregiver? I literally can’t count the number of times we’ve helped people when they’ve had illnesses in the family, deaths, moves, etc. I helped a friend build a raised bed garden recently, and helped another one plumb a sink. We do things like that all the time. It’s sad that you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/203 "2014-05-31T01:18:37Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I literally can’t count the number of times we’ve helped people when they’ve had illnesses in the family, deaths, moves, etc. I helped a friend build a raised bed garden recently, and helped another one plumb a sink. We do things like that all the time. > > It’s sad that you don’t. We had friends just help us move and another set build a ramp. I’ve helped, just in the past week, some do their gardening. My dad will be doing some light electrical work in the upcoming days for some folks from his church. And before we moved, I routinely took people (from the Senior Center I worked at) around to various doctor appointments, to the store, etc. Isn’t that just how things are done when you want to help others, with children or not? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/204 "2014-05-31T02:01:36Z")
I’m going to say something gender-biased here: Women need more from friends than men do. Men can be out of touch with one another for months or years and then show up to help with a move or a renovation or something and pick up where we left off. Women tend to need to be involved with one anothers lives WAY more than men do. Flame away. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/205 "2014-05-31T03:08:53Z")
You mean like curlcoat? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/206 "2014-05-31T03:10:29Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You are the nutbar dear. I love how you all say of COURSE we’d pitch in if a friend decided to do something highly time consuming that wasn’t children, but the only example I get is a caregiver? I’ve tutored neighbors kids in math and science and read their college essays as favors. I’ve made dinners when they’ve redone their kitchens, had babies, had illnesses, were just getting back from a long vacation. I used to watch our neighbors’ kids so their parents could go Christmas shopping, since we don’t celebrate Christmas, so we had little prep to do for the holidays. My neighbor plowed our very long driveway when we were stranded out of town at an airport and a big snow storm hit at home, so it’d be clear when we got back. I could go on and on- It’s odd you find this unusual. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/207 "2014-05-31T03:43:30Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > Yes, breeders making jokes at the expense of their child-free friends behind their backs (even though it’s not actually behind their backs) is freaking hilarious! Oh, but it’s totally OK because child-free people weren’t supposed to know about it! :rolleyes: Your use of the term breeders really says quite a bit about how you feel about people who choose to have children. What I can’t quite figure out is why you would feel offended by this “breeder” or any video she may make. If you are happily childfree, and choose to associate with like minded folks, how would this even be a blip on your radar? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/208 "2014-05-31T03:59:32Z")
Not being able to have children (genetic misfit) and as my 40’s slip away, I find myself becoming very wistful about not having children. Then I look at my life of dancing, partying, sports, events, functions, political activism, etc., and I think “how could I give that up?” We come home from work and our time is our own. And then I think “I would gladly give it all up if I could have my own children.” And then I have friends texting me “Una, there’s a rave tonight and these hot girls want to meet you - come out and play!” “Una, we’re seeing a midnight movie, come with us and we can hit IHOP later!” or “Una, I know it’s 1:00am but I need you to help me, I’m freaking out!” And I think “wow, I couldn’t do any of that.” Then I think of how fulfilling it would be to even adopt, “rescue” some girls from Afghanistan or Africa or China, to teach them to be strong and confident and wise. How much I love mentoring and teaching. Having a family which would continue on after I’m dust. Mostly I just feel unhappy about the subject; I don’t think there is a right answer for me, only a “least wrong” answer. Damned if I know which one it is. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/209 "2014-05-31T04:19:13Z")
Anybody want to run the numbers on the percentage of Una’s posts that are about Una? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/210 "2014-05-31T04:23:52Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Anybody want to run the numbers on the percentage of Una’s posts that are about Una? We’re all talking about ourselves, even when we think we’re talking about someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/211 "2014-05-31T04:30:06Z")
> [@saje](#): > > I am committing the extreme sin of posting without having really read beyond the first couple of pages, so possibly this has been mentioned already: > > [Don’t Blame Your Kids; You’re Just a Crappy Friend](http://persephonemagazine.com/2014/05/dont-blame-your-kids-youre-just-a-crappy-friend/) > > Often this chick’s take is too aggressively… no, _contentiously_ feminist for me, but I kind of like this piece. > > The first paragraph should tell you her stance, but it’s an interesting read anyway: > > Enjoy 😛 This piece very nicely summarizes every child-free sentiment expressed in this thread. She must be out of her mind for objecting to sanctimonious, self-important behavior! 🙂 > [@Malthus](#): > > You see this video, not merely as “making jokes at the expense” of the child-free, but as akin to _racism_? > > Wow. Just wow. Seriously? > > See, the rest of us see it as humour of the self-deprecation variety. The women is light-heartedly exaggerating how stressed she is. Presumably, the intent is a few chuckles from other parents, who know what it is like to be stressed. This is offensive to you now? 😕 > > As I said above - Screw. Loose. On subject. > > I personally don’t think that pointing out you guys sound nuts (on this subject - no doubt, sensible on all others) makes me a “whiny little bitch” - think of it more as a public service, or a reality check. 😃 Maybe you are not _aware_ that you are sounding nuts. You know what else used to be considered “light-hearted exaggeration?” Black face. But I’m sure people who objected to it just had a screw loose. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Are you really, seriously arguing that “You post a lot about X” and “You post about nothing but X” are equivalent to you? And that if someone says “You post a lot about X but not exclusively about X” that they are saying “You post infrequently about X”? > [@Calatin](#): > > Ok, I’m not necessarily agreeing with the “one trick pony” claim, but the initial response (to me, at least) read that the OP will find a way to bitch about children in almost any thread. I’m not saying that “You post a lot about X” and “You post about nothing but X” are equivalent, but I expected OP to have a long and storied history of interjecting her thoughts on the joys of childlessness and the woes of raising kids to topics ranging from car maintenance to “Game of Thrones.” Perhaps the posts that OP has made in her 3% were memorable enough to make a lasting impression that influences recollections of her other unrelated posts (and that does look to be the case). This looks to be a matter that was blown out of proportion due to hyperbole. > > \ My statistical breakdown was precisely to illustrate the point that the whinging I’m seeing in this thread about the OP’s obssessive need to bring up this subject again and again is wildly overstated confirmation bias. Whether “One Trick Pony,” “You post a lot about X,” or “You post about nothing but X” are the same or different is immaterial—the point is that she doesn’t do any of those things and that the people who are hypersensitive about seeing this particular subject come up now and then need to get over themselves. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/212 "2014-05-31T04:32:23Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Anybody want to run the numbers on the percentage of Una’s posts that are about Una? In this thread quite a lot of it is people telling about why they wanted children or why they didn’t. I posted something with actual human feeling, admitting that it’s not so clear-cut as wanting children or not, sometimes life just takes you on a ride you have no control over - or gives you choices which aren’t so simple and clear-cut. Your post indicates that either you haven’t read the thread, or else your goal is to try to goad me for the benefit of an off-board audience. :dubious: In either circumstance, how unfortunate for you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/213 "2014-05-31T04:37:02Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > Your use of the term breeders really says quite a bit about how you feel about people who choose to have children. What I can’t quite figure out is why you would feel offended by this “breeder” or any video she may make. If you are happily childfree, and choose to associate with like minded folks, how would this even be a blip on your radar? To be honest, if we hadn’t seen a story on the news about this mom’s video and how surprised she is that her childless friends are suddenly not speaking to her, it wouldn’t even be a blip on my radar. It’s not like people of my ilk go looking for this crap. But it does jump out and find us every now and then. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/214 "2014-05-31T04:47:51Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > To be honest, if we hadn’t seen a story on the news about this mom’s video and how surprised she is that her childless friends are suddenly not speaking to her, it wouldn’t even be a blip on my radar. It’s not like people of my ilk go looking for this crap. But it does jump out and find us every now and then. 🙂 Huh. So it made news in Canada? That seems strange to me. Not as strange as getting all worked up about it though. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/215 "2014-05-31T04:57:07Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > Huh. So it made news in Canada? That seems strange to me. Not as strange as getting all worked up about it though. Videos that go viral are news in lots of places. And we all have different definitions of strange behavior. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/216 "2014-05-31T04:57:18Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I literally can’t count the number of times we’ve helped people when they’ve had illnesses in the family, deaths, moves, etc. I helped a friend build a raised bed garden recently, and helped another one plumb a sink. We do things like that all the time. > > It’s sad that you don’t. I don’t know how you are able to breathe you are so damn oblivious. For one thing, _in the post you quoted_ I gave two examples of how I have helped others. And for another, none of your examples above or any of the others that follow from other folks are answers to the question. Here, I’ll help and post it again - How often do you do favors for friends who have chosen to do something highly time consuming that wasn’t children? Listing off one time favors, or helping someone who is going thru an illness is **nothing** like how far too many parents expect the rest of the world to conform to their schedules and bow to their wishes, not to mention the dismissive way they treat those without children. Of course, someone who jumped on the OP with both feet because she happened to express an opinion you don’t like, and then it turns out you mixed her up with someone who shares a letter with the user name of another poster? Not likely you have a brain to use. Just spleen. > [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > To be honest, if we hadn’t seen a story on the news about this mom’s video and how surprised she is that her childless friends are suddenly not speaking to her, it wouldn’t even be a blip on my radar. It’s not like people of my ilk go looking for this crap. But it does jump out and find us every now and then. 🙂 And if you are living in breeder central as we are, it jumps out and finds us almost every day … ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/217 "2014-05-31T05:21:58Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > You know what else used to be considered “light-hearted exaggeration?” Black face. Bravo! Hands down, this is the stupidest statement made so far in this thread. And that’s even with curlcoat posting in it. Keep’em coming. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/218 "2014-05-31T05:29:21Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Bravo! > > Hands down, this is the stupidest statement made so far in this thread. And that’s even with curlcoat posting in it. Keep’em coming. Thank you very much! I always aim to please and happily accept the honor of winning the thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/219 "2014-05-31T05:29:48Z")
If we’re sharing over-the-top entitled parent links, this one’s a doozy. [My children are an extension of me and are part of our community, and you WILL provide toys, games, childcare, snacks, etc. when I bring my children with me everywhere I am invited whether it’s a child-friendly event or not. And you WILL enjoy their noise - I demand it!](http://www.stfuparentsblog.com/post/10812995840/finally-someone-says-whats-on-everybodys-mind#comment-323134075) ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/220 "2014-05-31T05:40:20Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > Videos that go viral are news in lots of places. And we all have different definitions of strange behavior. 🙂 First off, it must have been a slow news day here in the North Americas. Holy crap, that lady is one of a zillion mommy bloggers, most of whom are tiresome. The thing is, if you do choose to have a kid shit changes real fast and really in a way that is out of control. You don’t stop being friends but you cede some of your control (for the first few months, at least) to someone who is a ridiculously tiny person who needs round the clock care. If you want to talk strange behavior, it happens, believe! No matter if you plan, think, discipline or whatever. I am not asking for you to want this for yourself because god knows my husband and I have discussed our boys in terms of the BMW or Porche that we could easily own. My girlfriends and I have whine and wine:) nights and let the kids play if they are old enough. If not, we play pass the baby. We talk about our jobs, our relationships and, yes, our kids. We had a girlfriend who was not married and had no kids for a bit, but unsurprisingly it was not interesting for her. She and i had a lull in the friendship but are working it now that my kids are a bit more self sufficient. Here is the thing…It is easy to say what you will or won’t do when you have kids. It is even easier to say what peoe should or shouldn’t do when other people have kids. Especially when it is coming from the position of the position of happily “child free”. The reality is that these little people are our family, they are important, and they need a bunch of attention right now to raise them to be good people. Plus, we wouldn’t want to subject you child free folks to our kids when they are learning to behave, lest we become a pit thread about parents of out of control kids;) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=12)