# Mom's "Apology" To Friends Without Kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487 "2014-05-28T18:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/21 "2014-05-28T21:42:09Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Cool. > > But if you literally can’t sit at the table and chat with me for half an hour without constantly interacting with your toddler because I didn’t bring over my own crotch spawn to play with yours, then I’m not going to bother, frankly. I have to say I’m absolutely shocked that you haven’t been able to find somebody to put a baby in. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/22 "2014-05-28T21:43:30Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Jesus, it’s actually sad how much time the OP dedicates to griping about parents and children. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more obnoxious example of someone protesting too much. > > Get the fuck over it, and quit reading mommy blogs. She’s trying to keep tabs on etv. And yeah, not a shocker that somebody with the word “cat” in her username has issues with children. That’s usually why cat ladies become cat ladies. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/23 "2014-05-28T21:43:30Z")
I would be quite shocked as well. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/24 "2014-05-28T21:53:49Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > “Oh I WISH I had more time to paint/crochet/read but I just have so many more important things to do.” Um, okay. Because, after all, painting crocheting and reading are not just ways to try to fill your empty life. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/25 "2014-05-28T22:34:34Z")
I have incredible friends. We had kids at very different times in our lives but we have always made time for each other. They definitely set the bar high with their support of me when my kids were young and we were able to maintain a regular schedule of time together throughout all stages of our lives so far. Now their kids are young and we are continuing the tradition with the added bonus of my kids available for babysitting when we want an adults only night. Maintaining friendships when you’re at different points in your life takes effort on both sides and a recognition of that effort from everyone. The reality is that friends take the time for each other even if it means changing a diaper when you have no desire to have a kid, taking the kid for a walk so your exhausted friend can have a nap or letting the kids dump out the toy box so you can help a friend through a crisis. Some friendships have a time limit and expire when situations change, others are worth the effort to save. Figuring out which kind you have is the trick. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/26 "2014-05-28T22:37:11Z")
I have no clue about this woman and haven’t watched the video, but if you decide to make kids, then you have a responsibility to look after them, spend time with them, and put in the time and work to grow them into decent human beings - and it takes a LOT of time and work. And yes, of course you have a responsibility to maintain your friendships, too - but you didn’t \*create \*your friends. It’s not the same order of responsibility. That doesn’t carry any implication at all that kids are the most important thing in the world, or that being a parent is in any way particularly important. I don’t expect my kids to be any kind of priority at all to anyone else. But hell yeah, they’re a priority to me. I’d be irresponsible if they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/27 "2014-05-28T23:09:23Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Jesus, it’s actually sad how much time the OP dedicates to griping about parents and children. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more obnoxious example of someone protesting too much. > > Get the fuck over it, and quit reading mommy blogs. Yeah, out of my 48,000 posts, there must be 15, 20 of them that are about kids. I’m the original One Trick Pony. I thought this video was a perfect example of a non-pology - no, actually, I’m not sorry at all, and I have no intention of making any effort whatsoever. People without kids aren’t stupid; even though we don’t have kids, we do understand that they take a whole lotta time, and they are the most important things in your life. What we don’t quite understand is why you don’t have two minutes every month or so to send an email that says you’re still alive, or why you can never, ever get a babysitter and be an adult for a few hours once or twice a year. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/28 "2014-05-28T23:17:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > …What we don’t quite understand is why you don’t have two minutes every month or so to send an email that says you’re still alive, or why you can never, ever get a babysitter and be an adult for a few hours once or twice a year. I’m pretty sure all parents do at least this. Maybe not when the kids are months old, but certainly after they’re two or three and are no longer in the “making strange” phase. Any parents who don’t get out a few times a year are pretty weird. The first couple of years can be ridiculously busy though, and babies don’t exactly take to strangers very well. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/29 "2014-05-28T23:24:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > When I visit friends with young children, I DO CHORES. > > If you know these people well enough to hang out with them and sustain a real friendship, you know them well enough to do some dishes or mop or vacuum a floor or cook a meal or run a load of laundry. Not just now and then, but every time you walk into their house. So if I make the decision to do anything at all that is a tremendous time suck, you think my friends should be expected to be completely ignored unless they come be my slave _and_ I should post a video bragging about it? > [@](#): > > Home life for parents of young kids is exponentially busier and more event-driven than home life for non-parents. No, that’s just what they want you to believe. I have friends with children and their ability to be social didn’t change all that much, certainly not to the point that they would cut off contact. But then, the fact that they reproduced wasn’t the whole of their identity either. And there are plenty of non-parents who are just as busy or even busier than parents with young kids. The difference is that they don’t make YouTube videos talking about how great they are for snubbing their friends. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Yeah, until I had kids myself I had absolutely no idea. Toddlers in particular are a huge amount of work. Mobile enough to get themselves killed, strong-willed enough to argue, but still young enough to require your help to accomplish Every. Damn. Little. Thing. When I was raising my last two brothers, we had this thing called a play pen, something they could play in while I cleaned house or whatever. When they got too big for that, we had baby gates to keep them out of the non-childproofed parts of the house. It certainly wasn’t necessary to pay attention to them every minute they were awake, at least not in the 60’s & 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/30 "2014-05-28T23:29:26Z")
Oh goody. The Curlcoat show is back. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/31 "2014-05-28T23:31:56Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Because, after all, painting crocheting and reading are not just ways to try to fill your empty life. If they are, then you’re obviously crap at painting, crocheting, and reading. As for videos like the one in the OP, well it’s pretty obviously a cry for help, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/32 "2014-05-28T23:32:07Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Yeah, out of my 48,000 posts, there must be 15, 20 of them that are about kids. I’m the original One Trick Pony. Bullshit. If you think those are the actual number of times you’ve posted about kids, parents, being childfree, etc, then you’re fucking delusional. And I just watched the video. It was of a perfectly nice person trying to be funny. Your “horrible person” response borders on sociopathic. > [@](#): > > I thought this video was a perfect example of a non-pology - no, actually, I’m not sorry at all, and I have no intention of making any effort whatsoever. People without kids aren’t stupid; even though we don’t have kids, we do understand that they take a whole lotta time, and they are the most important things in your life. What we don’t quite understand is why you don’t have two minutes every month or so to send an email that says you’re still alive, or why you can never, ever get a babysitter and be an adult for a few hours once or twice a year. When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The rest of us saw a clip that couldn’t be described as anything other than benign. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/33 "2014-05-28T23:39:36Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > And I just watched the video. It was of a perfectly nice person trying to be funny. And she’s hot too. I wish there was a common term for hot internet mothers. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/34 "2014-05-28T23:43:06Z")
Has this always been a thing that parents and their childless friends have dealt with? Or is it a new thing brought on by the internet? Maybe it’s the “childless friends” thing that’s new? I guess I can’t see people like my parents dealing with this kind of drama. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/35 "2014-05-28T23:51:12Z")
WTF? Are you crazy? Oh, right, a woman who whispers to cats. Canadian cats. Children are a full time responsibility. Any time taken away from the children is time taken away from providing for them, which is her full time responsibility. Chatting with the local crazy cat lady was an option prior to giving birth because there was time for that. My friends with children rush through one party a year and are on their way and we are happy to see them that long. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/36 "2014-05-28T23:54:48Z")
Somehow, I, as a childless person, think that the truth is somewhere between \*\*curlcoat \*\*and **Labrador Deceiver**. I watched most of the video, it started out fine, but she lost me when the mommy explained how she had to spend all this time keeping her toddler entertained or she would “melt down in front of you.” When (again, asking as a childless person) does the toddler learn that there are other people in the world besides her, and that Mommy is a person with her own needs? Does she ever learn that, if you indulge her every whim and let her get away with throwing shredded cheese on the floor? Does the mommy grudge her friend her child-free, and therefore apparently care-free existence? One would almost think so. Kids are fine, they are definitely a handful, and raising kids has changed a lot from when I was little. That’s really all I know about them. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/37 "2014-05-28T23:54:53Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Cool. > > But if you literally can’t sit at the table and chat with me for half an hour without constantly interacting with your toddler because I didn’t bring over my own crotch spawn to play with yours, then I’m not going to bother, frankly. Have you considered that, just perhaps, the constant interaction with the toddler is only a convenient way to minimize interaction with you? I suspect you have similar complaints about “friends” with spouses, roommates, pets, or telephones. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/38 "2014-05-28T23:55:01Z")
[This article](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christine-skoutelas/once-we-become-parents-we-dont-want-to-hang-out-with-you-anymore-but-not-for-the-reasons-you-think_b_5270148.html)came out after the video is question, but I think it does a much better job of describing why a lot of social activities are a challenge with young kids: > [@](#): > > 1. “Just bring the kids” is an option. But it is one that sucks. Even though we thoroughly enjoy our time at home, we want to see you, too. We really do. Even so, we often decline invitations to your fun events, not because they don’t sound like a blast in general, but because we know, for us, they just won’t be fun. This is not because YOU aren’t fun. You are a riot. (Do you hear us? We really do think this, even if we neglect to express this enough.) We just can’t focus on you very well when we have to simultaneously keep an eye on our kids, making sure they don’t choke, drown in a randomly placed vat of water or get a head injury bumping into the pointy corner of a table. We spend a lot more time and energy worrying about keeping our brood alive than you might imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/39 "2014-05-28T23:56:51Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > So if I make the decision to do anything at all that is a tremendous time suck, you think my friends should be expected to be completely ignored unless they come be my slave _and_ I should post a video bragging about it? Oh yes indeed, because that’s exactly what I said. No, wait a second, that isn’t actually anything like what I said. Doofus. I don’t think parents should expect their non-parent friends to be okay with being “completely ignored”. Nor should they commandeer their friends’ housekeeping services as the price of their company. But if non-parents see their friends with young kids struggling to cope with the demands of work+family and still trying to keep up the friendship, ISTM that the decent thing for them to do is _PITCH IN_. Not sit on their asses griping about what a crap job the parents are doing at managing their work/life balance. Because they’re supposed to be, you know, friends. And friends help each other. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/40 "2014-05-29T00:02:41Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Somehow, I, as a childless person, think that the truth is somewhere between \*\*curlcoat \*\*and **Labrador Deceiver**. > > I watched most of the video, it started out fine, but she lost me when the mommy explained how she had to spend all this time keeping her toddler entertained or she would “melt down in front of you.” When (again, asking as a childless person) does the toddler learn that there are other people in the world besides her, and that Mommy is a person with her own needs? Does she ever learn that, if you indulge her every whim and let her get away with throwing shredded cheese on the floor? Around age 4. You can force them to share before that, and they’ll do it if they figure out it won’t get them into trouble. But they really don’t understand delayed gratification and true empathy much before that. And I’m not sure what I’ve said about parenting that warrants a spot on the extreme end of a spectrum. Maybe you could clarify. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=3)