# Mom's "Apology" To Friends Without Kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487 "2014-05-28T18:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/101 "2014-05-29T06:04:42Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Are you always this dumb? true or false. if she didn’t do the videos she’d have A LOT more time for friends. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/102 "2014-05-29T06:21:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > true or false. if she didn’t do the videos she’d have A LOT more time for friends. True or false. This is an amusing video that does not necessarily reflect the true social activity status of the maker. FFS. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/103 "2014-05-29T06:21:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Not be such entitled martyrs for doing something people have been doing since the first single-celled organism split? Yeah! Why do some people make such a big fucking deal about it? Like: > [@Didn't want kids and had them anyway? What happened?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-want-kids-and-had-them-anyway-what-happened/237797/50): > > What made the most sense to me in my decision not to have kids is that I’m a woman, and even in this enlightened age, women still do about 80% of the childraising. I could handle about 20% of the childraising, and so can my husband - that brings us up to 40% worth of parents. Not nearly enough, in my opinion. and: > [@For those who don't have kids, don't want 'em](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-have-kids-dont-want-em/118649/48): > > I realize that raising children properly takes a huge commitment, and it is really hard, and I have no interest in doing this. I consider this to be a non-selfish decision; having kids and _not_ making the necessary sacrifices for them is what is selfish. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/104 "2014-05-29T06:24:26Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yes. Yes I do. Totally my type. Even if she’s not one’s type, I’m having difficulty imagining a world where she is not considered at least very attractive. The incredulity about someone considering her “hot” boggles my mind. That’s like “her knees are too sharp” territory. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/105 "2014-05-29T06:27:47Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Cool. > > But if you literally can’t sit at the table and chat with me for half an hour without constantly interacting with your toddler because I didn’t bring over my own crotch spawn to play with yours, then I’m not going to bother, frankly. Agreed. > [@fuchsiagroan](#): > > When people call, text or email to tell me they are sooooooooooo busy (SOOOOO SOOOOOO busy) I think of when Homer Simpson rings on someone’s (Flanders?) door so he can announce he has NO TIME. “But you rang on my bell…” I don’t expect anyone to devote any maintenance time to me But the my time is more important than you busy boasting is fecking annoying. Don’t bother then! This chick did it for a cutesy YouTube video benefit? Rather than care what her friends were up to? (If they are expected to take time out of their own stuff to watch videos? Presumptive, yeah? Maybe they are also busy?) > It’s just a little braggy, right? Like status over the (assuming) less busy. Why else waste time talking about it? So little time! This exactly. I understand perfectly well that when friends have kids, that our relationship will fundamentally change and that I’ll likely not see them for the next several years (or ever) because their priority becomes the children. And that’s fine. But on those rare occasions that we do actually see each other, if I have to listen to them drone on and on about how busy they are and how tough they have it and shouldn’t there be an award given out for the sacred act of squirting out a pup or two? And the not-so-subtle condescension of how empty my life must be since I don’t have any house apes of my own to complete me. Yeah, I can do without that bullshit. And I don’t waste my time with those kinds of people. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If you call children “crotch spawn”, then I will not bother to interact with you at all, ever. > > So it’s win-win! Crotch spawn. New band name! 😃 > [@SaharaTea](#): > > Honestly it’s not the time suckage that bothers me, because I totally get it. I’m also completely on board with offering to babysit or bring over a meal because that’s what friends do. What bothers me is how some parents act as if their lives are suddenly much more important than mine. I’ve had friends who stopped asking about my life and would say things like, “Oh I WISH I had more time to paint/crochet/read but I just have so many more important things to do.” Um, okay. > > I’m also going to give them the side-eye if we can’t even have a 5 minute conversation without them talking about little Kayden or Brayden, or if they start posting 50 photos a day of their kids on Facebook. Absolutely agree. BTW, we have a kid on my ball team named Rayden this year. How am I supposed to take that kid seriously with a stupid name like that? And it isn’t even his fault—it’s his idiot parents’ fault. > [@Chimera](#): > > And while I understand that your children are your lives, require your constant attention and are massive time sinks, I think you’ll eventually find that it is or was incredibly important to make some minimal time to maintain your friendships. Or one day you finally do have some time and you find that you don’t have any friends anymore. If your supposed friends can’t find time for you, are they really your friends? No loss there. > [@Robert163](#): > > if you have time to run a YouTube channel with 87,000 subscribers you have time to answer a text a friend sent you. its a matter of choice. not time or resources. This is a key point. It is all about choices. If you choose to have kids, and then choose to devote every waking hour of the next 18 years to servicing the kids, that’s on you, not on me. I don’t care about your excuses and explanations and I don’t want to hear about how much more important what you’re doing is compared to anything I might have going on in my life. You have chosen a path and it goes in a different direction than mine. Stop looking for my sympathy for your life decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/106 "2014-05-29T06:28:14Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > True or false. This is an amusing video that does not necessarily reflect the true social activity status of the maker. > > FFS. false she claims too be too busy for friends if she WEREN’T too busy for friends why make a video claiming, in jest, that she was too busy ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/107 "2014-05-29T06:36:39Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > If your supposed friends can’t find time for you, are they really your friends? I would say yes. To me, it’s normal for friends to disappear for years at a time while they’re taking care of their own thing (school, kids, work, whatever). When we pick up afterwards, it’s without skipping a beat. Sometimes it’s me being involved in my own thing; sometimes it’s them. My strongest and oldest friendships are ones where this sort of ebb and flow has occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/108 "2014-05-29T06:38:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I would say yes. To me, it’s normal for friends to disappear for years at a time while they’re taking care of their own thing (school, kids, work, whatever). When we pick up afterwards, it’s without skipping a beat. Sometimes it’s me being involved in my own thing; sometimes it’s them. My strongest and oldest friendships are ones where this sort of ebb and flow has occurred. yes, but do you make videos claiming “how busy you are” when in reality, the problem is all the time you spend on a YouTube channel with 87,000 subscribers. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/109 "2014-05-29T06:40:41Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > true or false. if she didn’t do the videos she’d have A LOT more time for friends. Again, let me correct that for you: If she didn’t _work_ she’d have A LOT more time for friends. True! For just about everyone, ever, regardless of marital or reproductive status. Still, it’s much more fun to say “making videos” instead of “working”, isn’t it? That way we can pretend it’s a frivolous hobby and belittle her for it instead of acknowledging that it earns actual money to help pay the bills. If she’s earning around $5 per 1,000 views, this video might have made her $8,500 so far. The stupid cow really ought to put the camera down and do something important, eh? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/110 "2014-05-29T06:45:10Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > yes, but do you make videos claiming “how busy you are” when in reality, the problem is all the time you spend on a YouTube channel with 87,000 subscribers. No, that’s obnoxious, I agree. But, well, it’s just a calculated Youtube video designed to generate “likes” and the such. Well done on her part for knowing how to play the social media game. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/111 "2014-05-29T07:32:01Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > Again, let me correct that for you: > If she didn’t _work_ she’d have A LOT more time for friends. > > True! For just about everyone, ever, regardless of marital or reproductive status. > > Still, it’s much more fun to say “making videos” instead of “working”, isn’t it? That way we can pretend it’s a frivolous hobby and belittle her for it instead of acknowledging that it earns actual money to help pay the bills. > > If she’s earning around $5 per 1,000 views, this video might have made her $8,500 so far. The stupid cow really ought to put the camera down and do something important, eh? wow my point wasn’t that it is a frivolous hobby. my point was that what keeps her so busy is writing, filming, editing and distributing videos for 87,000 people. that is what keeps her busy. not raising kids. but the video says the kids are what keep her too busy. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/112 "2014-05-29T08:02:19Z")
My experience is so different than this thread, I’m completely mystified. I don’t have kids, but I’m constantly at friend’s or relative’s parties where there are a ton of kids of varying ages underfoot. I don’t expect someone with kids to go out bar hopping with me until 2 AM, but my friends or relatives have no problem inviting me to mini-golf or Chuck-e-Cheese. I actually think my friends and relatives see these communal outings or parties as kind of a relief, since there’s always someone you can hand your kid off to for a few moments or some teenager who’s at that stage where they think babies are so adorable and are willing to entertain them for hours. Sometimes I find myself holding a baby or a toddler when their parents have handed them off to me to go do something. I get just wanting to take an evening or weekend and veg out by yourself (that’s something I do too), but it seems to me that if you really wanted to hang out with your friends after you have kids, you could do it. Although, I suppose that if your childless friends don’t want to play mini-golf, then I guess the friendship is probably doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/113 "2014-05-29T08:46:05Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > wow > > my point wasn’t that it is a frivolous hobby. my point was that what keeps her so busy is writing, filming, editing and distributing videos for 87,000 people. that is what keeps her busy. not raising kids. but the video says the kids are what keep her too busy. So what keeps her busy is her job, is that your point? Why won’t you refer to it as _her job_? If she says it’s the kids that interfere with her social life, not her job, why won’t you believe her? Wouldn’t she be in a better position to know than you? If she’s worked her entire adult life AND maintained friendships right up to the point that she had kids, and then her social life went on the backburner, wouldn’t it be fair to say it was children, not work, that changed her availability? And just because I’m curious, have you ever suggested a man shouldn’t say he doesn’t have time for socializing because he chooses to go to work, and if he wasn’t spending all his time building his business, he’d have plenty of time for friends? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/114 "2014-05-29T08:58:47Z")
I call it “relationship evolution”. When your single you mostly hang out with your single friends. Why? Because your experiences, trials, and issues in your life are similar plus you have the time to stay out late. When in a relationship you hang out with others in a relationship or married. Why? Nobody likes to be a “3rd wheel” and bring their spouse to an event where all the single people have their own focus. When you have kids, you switch to that group because no way does a single person want you to bring their kids to their non-childproof house and single people quickly tire about talking about diapers and child raising. Gradually as your kids get older you spend time with other people with kids who have similar interests like the fine arts parents or soccer parents. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/115 "2014-05-29T08:59:52Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I would say yes. To me, it’s normal for friends to disappear for years at a time while they’re taking care of their own thing (school, kids, work, whatever). When we pick up afterwards, it’s without skipping a beat. Sometimes it’s me being involved in my own thing; sometimes it’s them. My strongest and oldest friendships are ones where this sort of ebb and flow has occurred. I think that’s great. Relationships can change but the core friendship stays intact. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/116 "2014-05-29T10:45:36Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > wow > > my point wasn’t that it is a frivolous hobby. my point was that what keeps her so busy is writing, filming, editing and distributing videos for 87,000 people. that is what keeps her busy. not raising kids. but the video says the kids are what keep her too busy. Something’s missing here. Maybe you don’t know how time works, or maybe you don’t know how addition works, or something. Let’s say she spends 40 hours a week on videos. Cool, that’s what you spend on work, and you can make time for friends! Let’s say she spends 40 hours a week on childcare. Cool, that’s what you spend fucking off–in fact, that’s where you spend time with your friends! It’s not that work, OR that childcare, keeps her from seeing friends. It’s EVERYTHING. It’s the 40+40 that means she’s got less leisure time than you. Keeping her kids safe, happy, and healthy is what keeps her busy. Working is ALSO what keeps her busy. Doing both of them keeps her **busier than you**. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/117 "2014-05-29T12:45:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Yeah, out of my 48,000 posts, there must be 15, 20 of them that are about kids. I’m the original One Trick Pony. > > I thought this video was a perfect example of a non-pology - no, actually, I’m not sorry at all, and I have no intention of making any effort whatsoever. People without kids aren’t stupid; even though we don’t have kids, we do understand that they take a whole lotta time, and they are the most important things in your life. What we don’t quite understand is why you don’t have two minutes every month or so to send an email that says you’re still alive, or why you can never, ever get a babysitter and be an adult for a few hours once or twice a year. Dude (or Dudette). Think about this for a moment. Curlcoat…_CURLCOAT_ agrees with you 100%. It’s time to rethink your position on this issue and possibly rethink your entire life. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/118 "2014-05-29T13:12:17Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > My experience is so different than this thread, I’m completely mystified. > > I don’t have kids, but I’m constantly at friend’s or relative’s parties where there are a ton of kids of varying ages underfoot. I don’t expect someone with kids to go out bar hopping with me until 2 AM, but my friends or relatives have no problem inviting me to mini-golf or Chuck-e-Cheese. > > I actually think my friends and relatives see these communal outings or parties as kind of a relief, since there’s always someone you can hand your kid off to for a few moments or some teenager who’s at that stage where they think babies are so adorable and are willing to entertain them for hours. Sometimes I find myself holding a baby or a toddler when their parents have handed them off to me to go do something. > > I get just wanting to take an evening or weekend and veg out by yourself (that’s something I do too), but it seems to me that if you really wanted to hang out with your friends after you have kids, you could do it. Although, I suppose that if your childless friends don’t want to play mini-golf, then I guess the friendship is probably doomed. This, totally. I mean, duh, of course you’re going to have less time once you have kids. But whoever mentioned balance above hits it on the head. Too many parents are so completely up their kids asses’ all the time, it’s stupid. When my father in law died, we were gathered at my mother in laws house after the evening funeral, and we were drinking and carrying on, and some people do after funerals. My kids were 3 and 10, and the toddler was asleep upstairs, and the 10 year old was playing with her cousin and watching TV. My 8 year old niece kept coming downstairs and nagging at her mom. Having just lost her father, she needed some time to just be with her friends and family, and blow off steam, but this kid kept coming down to bother her. I finally looked at Niece and said, in my stern mommy voice “Go upstairs - this is grown up time”. Niece looked at me, and went upstairs and stayed there. My sister in law looked at me and said “Grown up time”. What a good idea - I never thought of that!" How does that happen? With both of our kids, starting at the baby stage, we made sure they learned how to play alone, how to entertain themselves, and that Grown Up time is a thing. Why don’t more parents make sure they teach their kids that? I can only imagine that when their kid is 16 or 18 and hating them and spending all of their time away from them, these parents have a pretty crappy life - they’ve sacrificed their own interest and relationships on the altar of their children, which is a fleeting 18 years in an 80 year life span. Kids are challenging and time consuming and an absolute joy, but they’re nothing special in the greater world. There’s no honor in being a martyr. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/119 "2014-05-29T13:38:49Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I watched most of the video, it started out fine, but she lost me when the mommy explained how she had to spend all this time keeping her toddler entertained or she would “melt down in front of you.” When (again, asking as a childless person) does the toddler learn that there are other people in the world besides her, and that Mommy is a person with her own needs? IME, somewhere between three and four - you start teaching it a bit earlier, but that’s when it starts really sinking in. My four-year-old can be told ‘Buzz off for a bit, I want to chat to my friend’ and will perfectly happily go and amuse herself for long periods of time. My just-turned-one-year-old genuinely isn’t yet capable of understanding the concept that other people have needs, any more than she’s capable of understanding quadratic equations. Her brain just isn’t ready. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/120 "2014-05-29T13:49:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Dude (or Dudette). Think about this for a moment. Curlcoat…_CURLCOAT_ agrees with you 100%. > > It’s time to rethink your position on this issue and possibly rethink your entire life. Got to agree here. This is a major red flag you’ve steered off into crazy land. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=7)