# Mom's "Apology" To Friends Without Kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487 "2014-05-28T18:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/161 "2014-05-30T00:32:13Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > But do you have a pony, huh, huh? I do not have one pony. And it does not do tricks. > [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > When was it decided that the proper phrase is “crotch spawn” and not “crotch fruit”? I think it’s “crotch spawn” and “loin fruit.” > [@](#): > > And how the hell can you live in Canada and not have a truck? Isn’t it mostly snowy wilderness up there? 😉 I live in a city, where they plow the roads year round. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/162 "2014-05-30T00:46:47Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > \ It isn’t the same thing, at all. Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/163 "2014-05-30T00:52:31Z")
You honestly don’t see the difference between: 1. “You gripe about that a lot.” and… 1. “That’s all you post about.” Really? Are you telling me that’s just how stupid you are? Inside your brain, those two sentences mean exactly the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/164 "2014-05-30T00:56:24Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > You honestly don’t see the difference between: > > 1. “You gripe about that a lot.” > > and… > > 1. “That’s all you post about.” > > Really? Are you telling me that’s just how stupid you are? Inside your brain, those two sentences mean exactly the same thing? Sorry, but this is right… > [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > Yes it is. and this isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/165 "2014-05-30T05:03:21Z")
My wife’s family has lots of kids in it, and yet the moms are frequently at get togethers. Like others mentioned upthread, there are opportunities for parents to socialize and have a great time; with my wife’s family (also her friends) the kids play together and the parents party and drink. Nobody feels guilty about this. I don’t know if its cultural, but I observed Latino parents being less “hyper involved” with their kids at social gatherings and let them be kids, while gringo parents were much more likely to constantly be around their kids. Her friends are the same way, and a nice thing about it is they don’t get the same “distance” encountered when a friend has kids. Then again, in their culture they’re much more likely to live close to their extended families and have far more babysitting options if need be. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/166 "2014-05-30T05:10:21Z")
We are talking about babies and toddlers. You can’t not be “hyper involved” with a baby. If the baby is awake, it basically needs your full attention to remain alive. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/167 "2014-05-30T05:44:54Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > We are talking about babies and toddlers. You can’t not be “hyper involved” with a baby. If the baby is awake, it basically needs your full attention to remain alive. :dubious: When active and unrestrained, arguably; otherwise, not always true. I have frequently observed parents not devoting their full attention to a baby that was happily jumping in a bouncy swing or lying in a cot watching a mobile or even looking at “baby TV” like Teletubbies and Baby Jake. These parents’ engagement in other activities like talking, texting, working on a laptop, or reading, with their concomitant failure to focus completely undivided attention on their babies at all times, persisted for up to twenty minutes or so. In all cases, the babies remained alive anyway. On the other hand, if by “full attention” you meant “at least a minimum of constant partial attention, with ability to switch full attention to the baby immediately if necessary”, then your statement sounds more reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/168 "2014-05-30T10:17:11Z")
Maybe full attention was too strong. But it’s not like you can teach the babies some independence by having them play together on the den while you and your friends have a few beers. When you are responsible for someone who can barely move, can’t feed themselves, has the attention spam of a fruitfully and whose main mode of exploration is putting objects that can kill them in their mouth, bring “hyper involved” is the name of the game. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/169 "2014-05-30T11:59:57Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > But do you have a pony, huh, huh? If you need more than one truck, it ain’t a pony. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/170 "2014-05-30T12:04:47Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I live in a city, where they plow the roads year round. 🙂 Lies! You live in Calgary where they never plow! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/171 "2014-05-30T13:22:19Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > What is stupid about this thread in particular though is that the woman in the video isn’t a ‘horrible person’ for making a cutesy youtube video that dramatizes the challenges of child rearing. It isn’t really an attempt at a sincere apology or explanation to anyone about anything. It isn’t intended to be taken 100% literally. It is very likely that the video author does in fact have some time, occasionally, to devote to friends and pastimes other than child rearing. > > It is a movie! A dramatization. You know? Kind of like the way Jack Nicholson didn’t really murder his entire family with an axe at the urging of a ghost in a snowbound, haunted hotel. A pit thread ripping him for being a horrible person for using ghosts and voices in his head as excuses to murder his family with an axe would make about as much sense as this thread does. This. So much, this. I know Dopers are a humour-deprived bunch, but actually taking offence at this video strikes me as more that a trifle bizzare - it indicates, to me, that those doing it have a bit of a screw loose on the subject - regardless of a statistical study of posting frequencies. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/172 "2014-05-30T14:14:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Maybe full attention was too strong. But it’s not like you can teach the babies some independence by having them play together on the den while you and your friends have a few beers. When you are responsible for someone who can barely move, can’t feed themselves, has the attention spam of a fruitfully and whose main mode of exploration is putting objects that can kill them in their mouth, bring “hyper involved” is the name of the game. Ah, come on. I baby-sat a lot in high school, and I often did my homework while holding a baby. It’s not ideal, but people usually figure out how to do multiple things and watch a baby at the same time. I get that there are babies that need more attention, or that people may just be tired at the end of the day, but if people couldn’t do multiple things while watching their babies, nothing would ever get done. Aren’t you the one who has traveled in Africa a lot (or am I thinking of a different poster)? I have a lot of friends from Nigeria, and they all bring their babies and toddlers to functions and social events. I realize Nigeria isn’t the entire continent, but was it really that different in the parts of Africa you were in? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/173 "2014-05-30T14:40:32Z")
Ha, where I was people strapped their baby to the back of the nearest five year old and got back to work. I’d often have kids drop random babies off at my house, leaving me to run around town trying to figure out who it belonged to. But that wasn’t ideal. I attended lots of kiddie funerals. The scenario I’m reacting to is the post positing people can just go leave their kids to play together in another room while they chat over drinks. That works with kids and is probably good for them, but it doesn’t work for babies and would constitute criminal neglect. Of you’ve got a baby that’s not in a crib asleep, you are going to be paying them some level of attention. That’s not being “hyper vigilant.” It’s the basic thing you have to do so baby doesn’t freak out. Anyway, after I get home from work I get about two house with my bug before she sleeps, and there are lots of steps in between. I am happy to have guests over, if they don’t mind chatting while I feed, bathe, dress, read to and cuddle. But happy hour means I don’t see the baby at all that day, so they are rationed. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/174 "2014-05-30T14:47:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Don’t discount the possibility that I’m stupid. If I was whooshed, my apologies! I blame my children. I blame my kid for stuff too, so yes, it was a joke. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/175 "2014-05-30T14:49:56Z")
My experience is that babies don’t actually like playing with other babies much. The best-case scenario is each baby plays with his or her own chosen toys. Just as often, they all start wanting the same toy, leading to a barnyard-syle pecking order. 😃 I can well remember the relief when the kids got old enough that they would play together - my best buddy has a couple of kids, we take mine over, they play, we get to hang out over drinks. It isn’t like that with babies - we would visit all right, but you have to have one eye on the babies. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/176 "2014-05-30T14:50:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The scenario I’m reacting to is the post positing people can just go leave their kids to play together in another room while they chat over drinks. That works with kids and is probably good for them, but it doesn’t work for babies and would constitute criminal neglect. Of you’ve got a baby that’s not in a crib asleep, you are going to be paying them some level of attention. That’s not being “hyper vigilant.” It’s the basic thing you have to do so baby doesn’t freak out. I must have missed the posters who said that. I’ll have to go re-read the thread. I don’t see why you need to put a baby in another room to hang out with your friends. If it’s nap time or breast feeding time or changing time at a party, then for us, the parent will just go off to another room to take care of that and come back and join the party when they’re ready. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/177 "2014-05-30T14:56:15Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I must have missed the posters who said that. I’ll have to go re-read the thread. I don’t see why you need to put a baby in another room to hang out with your friends. If it’s nap time or breast feeding time or changing time at a party, then for us, the parent will just go off to another room to take care of that and come back and join the party when they’re ready. It can work if your friends are into partying with a baby. I did it from time to time. Not everyone is, particularly if the baby gets cranky - as it will eventually. Lots of people find a crying baby nearly intollerable, particularly when they want to relax and socialize. Even taking it to another room isn’t always enough - babies can be surprisingly loud. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/178 "2014-05-30T15:01:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It can work if your friends are into partying with a baby. I did it from time to time. > > Not everyone is, particularly if the baby gets cranky - as it will eventually. Lots of people find a crying baby nearly intollerable, particularly when they want to relax and socialize. Even taking it to another room isn’t always enough - babies can be surprisingly loud. Well, for me, there’s only a few places where I would get irritated by a crying baby (like a movie showing in the evening or an opera performance). I guess maybe it is a cultural thing. In my community, we just sort of expect that there will be crying babies at pretty much everything. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/179 "2014-05-30T15:06:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I swore up and down that I wouldn’t break my stride after the baby. I used to be out around town 4-5 days a week at various events. So the plan was hubby and I would switch off nights out, I’d drag baby everywhere (which would be easy with the mini-diaper bag I thoughtfully prepared) and we would hire the first sitter on Craig’s List. I thought babies were just an excuse lame people used to be lame, and I wouldn’t fall in to that trap. > > Hahahha. Hahahhaha. Haha. Hahahhaha. Ha ha ha ha. Ha. > > The upside is we do go on date nights, most of which consist of us driving straight home for a much needed nap. Unfortunately, there are a lot of men who use their wives as a live-in babysitter and don’t change their lives at all. :smack: Several years ago, I worked with a man who was planning to do exactly this - keep doing his own thing and leave it all to his wife. I’ll admit that some women want it that way, but it has to be a mutual decision. We all agreed that if it wasn’t, that marriage wasn’t going to last very long if he didn’t step up to the plate. He did appear somewhat interested in the baby after she was born, but referred to his daughter as “it”, not “she”. Example: He was moonlighting, and I said, “Ah! Head start on the college fund, huh?” and he replied, “No, I bought a Jet Ski.” I replied, “You better use that thing all you can now, because you won’t be able to do that later.” His answer: “Oh, no, she’ll be in the cabin with the baby and I’ll go out on my own.” He also wasn’t even planning to support the baby financially; that was going to be his wife’s responsibility too. And these were highly educated American-born people in their 30s. AFAIK, they’re still married. Their daughter would now be about 5 years old; IDK if they have any more kids. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487/180 "2014-05-30T15:32:50Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > My experience is that babies don’t actually like playing with other babies much. The best-case scenario is each baby plays with his or her own chosen toys. Just as often, they all start wanting the same toy, leading to a barnyard-syle pecking order. 😃 Hey, gotta teach them that stuff early. 😉 When they turn 3, you just throw down a knife in the middle of them when they start squabbling. That’ll settle things real quick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-apology-to-friends-without-kids/689487.md?page=10)