# Moms for Liberty lose big **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841 "2023-11-08T18:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/102 "2023-12-04T18:47:58Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > My wife is behind me 150% No, that other 50% is the third person. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/103 "2023-12-04T18:53:40Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > It’d be like if you met some hippies playing guitar in the park, and they brought you back to their place, and they served mayonnaise sandwiches and made you watch the McLaughlin Group. > > Not cool, man. I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/104 "2023-12-04T19:02:43Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > [Ron DeSantis doesn’t own a Bible – Kevin Drum](https://jabberwocking.com/ron-desantis-doesnt-own-a-bible/) This does not surprise me. Catholics (I was raised one) don’t worship the Bible nor believe in biblical inerrancy as some Protestant groups do. When I was in elementary school, I was taught that most of the Bible was not meant to be read literally. We did have a Bible in our house, but it was no big deal. We had tons of books. It was just one. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/105 "2023-12-04T19:14:47Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > From the article: > > > In his Saturday email, Ziegler did not address having told detectives that he did have sex with the woman but that it was consensual. He also didn’t address his wife telling detectives that the couple and the woman had group sex once, more than a year ago. > > > > “My family is rock solid. My wife is behind me 150% and we have methods in place to protect our (three) children, just as we have with all previous attacks that we have faced,” Christian Ziegler wrote. The Zieglers did not return calls and text messages Sunday seeking further comment. > > If only we all had spouses so rock solid behind us. > > And remember folks, just like you can imagine yourself to technically still be a virgin in the eyes of Baby Jesus if you only have sex in holes other than the holy hole, it’s not gay if you have sex with another woman as long as your husband is an active participant in the threesome. I wonder if they hung out with Jerry and Becki Falwell? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/106 "2023-12-04T20:58:16Z")
Of course you know that Moms for Liberty was never more than a grift, right? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/107 "2023-12-04T21:04:22Z")
A couple of articles support your claim: > **[Unmasking Moms for Liberty](https://www.mediamatters.org/critical-race-theory/unmasking-moms-liberty)** > There are few, if any, financial disclosures available to review since the group is newly incorporated. But there is ample evidence, via donor lists posted from events and political action committee finances, to suggest that the group is supported by far more than just T-shirt sales and membership fees. > > For example, Moms for Liberty Inc. (the group’s official name) is the [recipient of funds](https://www.transparencyusa.org/fl/pac/conservatives-for-good-government-69941-pac) from Conservatives for Good Government, a right-wing Florida political action committee. The group also hosts a number of high-dollar fundraisers, such as an [event](https://www.facebook.com/Moms4Liberty/photos/210056437636916) on June 15 featuring former Fox News host Megyn Kelly. An [archived version](https://web.archive.org/web/20210519234546mp_/https://momsforliberty.ticketspice.com/fearless-with-megyn-kelly) of the event page and a list of top sponsors show that the [named sponsors](https://www.mediamatters.org/media/3980906) alone gave $57,000 — and that doesn’t include general admission tickets ($50), bonus promotional packs ($30), and any anonymous donors. The event also boasted several GOP-affiliated donors, including Florida state Sen. Debbie Mayfield and Florida House of Representative members Randy Fine and Tyler Sirois. [https://www.laprogressive.com/education-reform/supporting-moms-for-liberty](https://www.laprogressive.com/education-reform/supporting-moms-for-liberty) > Moms for Liberty (M4L) claims the organization was started by moms. > > But it is hard to believe that three mothers in Florida could start up a grassroots group on January 1, 2021, and then, within a matter of weeks and months, wind up on [Rush Limbaugh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEIiVHvpbx8), [Tucker Carlson’s show](https://www.momsforliberty.org/news/moms-for-liberty-shout-out-on-tucker-carlson/), [Glenn Beck](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-swUM816U), and [Fox News](https://www.mediamatters.org/media/3991470). However, there is a shadowy network of money and influence in right-wing political circles that could arrange that easily. > > Among M4L’s financial supporters and profile boosters are some of the most influential organizations, media operations, and wealthy donors in the vast theater of the right-wing propaganda machine. They’ve been raking in a lot of money for their “righteous cause” while pretending to just be random moms genuinely concerned about their children’s education and trying to build up a movement from scratch selling T-shirts and scraping together pennies to save the country. ETA: I realize that Media Matters and the LA Progressive are not truly neutral sources, but that doesn’t automatically mean they’re wrong. Here’s another cite, though again not exactly a [neutral journalist](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/): > **[Moms for Liberty is no grassroots firestorm - Kevin Drum](https://jabberwocking.com/moms-for-liberty-is-no-grassroots-firestorm/)** > > The group Moms for Liberty is holding its national convention this weekend. It was created in 2021, allegedly by three housewives who were political neophytes but finally decided one day that something had to be done about liberal threats to their... ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/108 "2023-12-04T21:52:53Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > My wife is behind me 150% > [@susan](#): > > No, that other 50% is the third person. They’re both behind him, 75% each. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/109 "2023-12-04T22:08:15Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > They’re responsible for destroying families, dreams, and livelihoods, and it was for something they didn’t even believe in! While that may be accurate, I’m going to have to retract this quoted claim pending more information. Bridget Ziegler, wife of accused rapist and Florida GOP Chairman Christian Ziegler, claims she only had a threeway once with her husband and the other woman and that occurred a year ago. So I’m dialing back the accusation a little. In terms of probabilities, I’ll endorse and pass on this perspective by Josh Marshall of TPM: > Though he downplays it in his public statements, Christian Ziegler has admitted to having sex at least twice with the accuser. Bridget Ziegler meanwhile, who built her career in significant measure on demonizing gay people, admitted to police that she had sex with the female accuser at least once. Just in the nature of things, it seems unlikely that either Ziegler was a down-the-line sexual traditionalist with the exception of these two assignations. It’s not _logically_ impossible that there’s a coherent moral world-view reflected in the behaviors of the Zieglers, other than the obvious one where they say one thing for career purposes while getting their freak on in private. If so, I look forward to them establishing a new organization espousing the principle that eg sex based on love and commitment is bad, and that marriage should be a solemn pact between a man and women to have wild sex. If I understand them correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/110 "2023-12-04T22:13:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > They’re both behind him, 75% each. And what are they doing with each other, hmmm? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/111 "2023-12-04T22:14:37Z")
Not sure but it probably involves the other 25%. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/112 "2023-12-04T22:15:35Z")
Jeez, guys, get a room. Or several rooms if it gets crowded. And remember to leave a big tip for the maid. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/113 "2023-12-04T22:28:23Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > While that may be accurate, I’m going to have to retract this quoted claim pending more information. Bridget Ziegler, wife of accused rapist and Florida GOP Chairman Christian Ziegler, claims she only had a threeway once with her husband and the other woman and that occurred a year ago. So I’m dialing back the accusation a little. She admitted to having sex with the other woman and her husband once on a specific date, not that it was the only time they had sex. I certainly appreciate your integrity in wanting to dial back to only what can be definitely established from publicly available statements so far, but there’s also this from the affidavit: > According to text messages cited in the affidavit, the woman and the Zieglers had planned to again have group sex on Oct. 2, but the woman backed out after Bridget Ziegler “couldn’t make it.” > > The woman says she found Christian Ziegler in her apartment’s hallway later that day, that he pushed her inside and then raped her. > > In text and phone conversations monitored by investigators, Ziegler offered the woman “financial help” before becoming suspicious that they were being recorded. > > In a Nov. 2 interview with detectives, Ziegler said the sex was consensual and that he had recorded it. He said he deleted the video, then recovered it after the rape allegation surfaced. > > Detectives seized Christian Ziegler’s phone on Nov. 2, the affidavits say. None of what they have found has been made public. So, the other woman wanted a threesome, Bridget couldn’t make it, so she declined the offer of a two-way, but Christian (what an ironic name) wasn’t taking no for an answer. Oh, and he videotaped it too. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/114 "2023-12-04T22:38:26Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > This does not surprise me. Catholics (I was raised one) don’t worship the Bible nor believe in biblical inerrancy as some Protestant groups do. When I was in elementary school, I was taught that most of the Bible was not meant to be read literally. I dunno, maybe it’s just because my family tends towards owning books in general, but I’d have a hard time believing it if I were told that any of my Catholic relatives didn’t have a Bible at all. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/115 "2023-12-04T22:41:54Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > She admitted to having sex with the other woman and her husband once on a specific date, not that it was the only time they had sex. The _Miami Herald_ depicted it as being more than a single encounter. > **[If Moms for Liberty co-founder had sex with a woman, why is she targeting...](https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article282504773.html)** > > Florida is abuzz with scandalous accusations that state’s GOP chairman and his anti-gay wife had sex with a woman, says columnist Fabiola Santiago | Opinion > But, in the context of the investigation, the woman revealed to the police officer who initially responded and the investigating detective her long-running “three-way” sex life with the couple. That’s an opinion page, not a journalistic news article, but it’s also not _TMZ_ or _The National Enquirer_ either. It’s possible that “long-running” just referred to the year gap between the one encounter and the later planned (but cancelled) second encounter, but that’s at best very misleading if that’s the case. Sloppy language like that would certainly paint the picture that this was more than a one-time, almost two-time thing. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/116 "2023-12-05T00:09:08Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > So, the other woman wanted a threesome, Bridget couldn’t make it, so she declined the offer of a two-way, but Christian (what an ironic name) wasn’t taking no for an answer. Oh, and he videotaped it too. Ya gotta wonder who records themselves committing a rape? He’s either really wack, really stupid, or she’s now exaggerating her non-consent. “But why can’t it be all three?” you ask. Why yes, it can sez I. True paragons of virtue we have here as guiding lights for our great nation. NOT!!! ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/117 "2023-12-05T00:51:19Z")
I’m sure he doesn’t think it was rape, and the fact that he taped it proves it, but oops, he deleted it. It reminds me of the idiots that murdered Ahmaud Arbery producing the cellphone video of the murder imagining that it would exonerate rather than condemn them. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/118 "2023-12-05T00:59:27Z")
That’s somewhat strange to me. My wife is as card-carrying a Catholic as you can be, and there’s not a Bible in our house. I had one – though a King James Version for whatever odd reason-- growing up and my very devout Polish and Catholic parents never had a bible in the house that I knew of. I don’t know Catholics to be big Bible-owning folks. I didn’t find a US survey, but there’s this: > **[Catholics not as vested in Bible as other Christians](https://www.catholicregister.org/item/35565-catholics-not-as-vested-in-bible-as-other-christians)** > > Barely half of Canadian Roman Catholics have a Bible at home, and only about a third self-report engaging with Scripture monthly, says a study by Angus Reid and two predominantly non-Catholic institutions. But “The Bible and Us” survey shows 23 per... > Barely half of Canadian Roman Catholics have a Bible at home, and only about a third self-report engaging with Scripture monthly, says a study by Angus Reid and two predominantly non-Catholic institutions. ETA: OK, this for the US says almost all Catholics own one, which is contrary my experience: > **[Roman Catholics in the U.S. | American Bible Society](https://ministry.americanbible.org/catholic-ministries)** > > And 76 million of those Catholic believers reside in the United States, making up 23 percent of the American population.Although the Catholic Church... > In the United States, Bible ownership is common among practicing Catholics; 96 percent say they own a Bible. But Bible engagement is not as prevalent. Although 66 percent of practicing Catholics say they read the Bible at least three to four times a year, that number drops to 40 percent when including nominal Catholics. So I guess it depends on who you hang with. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/119 "2023-12-05T01:22:49Z")
I am nominally Catholic, but went to a High Anglican school so very little differences. Each student had their own bible (the “Good News” edition, which is shit, give me King James instead\*) It was boarding school, so a lot of boredom. I was a reasonably good student so I finished my homework early often. Then it was a matter of “do I have a library book or do I just have to read the bible, again?” I was in the school choir, which gave me access to the “chapel” - actually a huge building with seating for over 800. My friend and I took great delight in turning the pages (and page marks) of the huge bible on the lecturn to the salacious, violent, circumcision related or just plain weird parts and leaving the person doing the reading to fumble to find their more “normal” reading of the day. \* or don’t, I am an atheist now. But King James Bibles are more fun to read. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/120 "2023-12-05T01:25:43Z")
[sidetrack continued] > [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s somewhat strange to me. My wife is as card-carrying a Catholic as you can be, and there’s not a Bible in our house. I had one – though a King James Version for whatever odd reason-- growing up and my very devout Polish and Catholic parents never had a bible in the house that I knew of. I don’t know Catholics to be big Bible-owning folks. We did and still do have multiples in the family home (and in my Kindle account) but then again I went to Marist middle and high school so I was required to have one at any given time as part of the standard book set and have made it a standard part of the reference set since. [/sidetrack] As to the HotMom for Liberty scandal, eh, a lot of these types are into the whole notion of that _“well, it’s wrong, but you should not call out the Right Kind of People when they have a misstep because they’re fallible. You need to stay focused on condemning the Wrong Kind Of People for having the nerve to claim there’s nothing wrong with it!”_ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841/121 "2023-12-05T01:28:29Z")
Doesn’t the Church still give out “Confirmation Bibles?” Back in the day they did… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moms-for-liberty-lose-big/992841.md?page=7)