# Monarchs' ordinal numbers without the the? (Henry Eighth instead of Henry the Eighth)

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monarchs-ordinal-numbers-without-the-the-henry-eighth-instead-of-henry-the-eighth/167884>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [April 10, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monarchs-ordinal-numbers-without-the-the-henry-eighth-instead-of-henry-the-eighth/167884 "2003-04-10T20:48:18Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monarchs-ordinal-numbers-without-the-the-henry-eighth-instead-of-henry-the-eighth/167884/21 "2003-04-17T11:58:43Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by don willard \*  
> \*\*When did numbering the ruler begin? Was it only with William the Conqueror? They number the ancient pharaohs of Egypt too, like Amenhotep II, Amenhotep III, his son Amenhotep IV who later changed his name to Akhenaten, but at first he was A. IV. \*\*

Did _they_ number the Amenhoteps, or did _we_?

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**Author:** ![summerbreeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@summerbreeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/summerbreeze)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monarchs-ordinal-numbers-without-the-the-henry-eighth-instead-of-henry-the-eighth/167884/22 "2003-04-17T12:06:45Z")

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Maybe they just liked having “the” as a middle name! We used to play a game on long trips – name people whose middle name is “the”.

Vlad the Impaler  
Jimmy the Greek  
Smokey the Bear  
Jack the Giant-Killer  
Bob the Builder  
Bozo the Clown

and so on…

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**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monarchs-ordinal-numbers-without-the-the-henry-eighth-instead-of-henry-the-eighth/167884/23 "2003-04-17T12:40:15Z")

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As for the Shakespeare history plays, checking with the original quarto and folio editions shows that the definite article was certainly used, eg The Tragedy of King Richard the Third (title page of First Quarto). If actors occasionally say Richard Three, it is abbreviation, no more.

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**Author:** ![summerbreeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@summerbreeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/summerbreeze)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monarchs-ordinal-numbers-without-the-the-henry-eighth-instead-of-henry-the-eighth/167884/24 "2003-04-17T13:00:15Z")

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oh, you guys are _serious_ about this…

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**Author:** ![summerbreeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@summerbreeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/summerbreeze)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monarchs-ordinal-numbers-without-the-the-henry-eighth-instead-of-henry-the-eighth/167884/25 "2003-04-17T17:15:25Z")

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Billy the Kid, Catherine the Great, Jack the Ripper, Ivan the Terrible, Oscar the Grouch…

Did I kill this thread?

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