# Money Grubbing Shitheads Slice and Dice a Piece of History

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [October 20, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582 "2003-10-20T21:12:45Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/61 "2003-10-21T18:22:00Z")

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Get yer 1/2100 of the Shroud Of Turin right here…

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**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/62 "2003-10-21T19:00:11Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> The whole shirt has some value. 2100 pieces of inch square cloth aren’t worth a damn thing.

I am not certain this is true.

[pathetic cite, but the best I can do]  
I have a friend who deals in sports memorabilia on E-bay and makes quite a handy living off of people who will spend big bucks on this sort of thing. I will ask him when I see him.  
[/PC]

Yes, the cards with jersey in them are sold in regular packs for $1.00 each. But the lucky kid (or grown man) who gets the card can then sell it for quite a lot. And I’m pretty sure (again, no cite) that if you multiply 2100 by the amount that each card could be sold for on e-bay you will get substantially more than what the original jersey was sold (whole) for.

Anyone e-bay savvy enough to check out how much they’re going for right now?

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**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/63 "2003-10-21T19:14:56Z")

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I’m not saying people wouldn’t pay for it. It’s just my view that it’s no longer the actual historic item. It’s been destroyed and what remains are remnants that, in and of themselves, never would have made the same contribution to history.

If someone had handed the Babe one of these cloth squares back in 19?? do you think he would have stuck it on his left tit and called it a uniform?

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**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/64 "2003-10-21T19:44:34Z")

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Again, anyone who knows me should be fully aware of how little enthusiasm I have for organized sports, especially professional sports.

As others have mentioned, The Bambino was a national phenomenon. He also had his flaws, as every human does, but Ruth galvanized an entire nation with his exceptional prowess. One of Baseball’s most enduring teams, the Yankees, built their stadium from the profits generated by his popularity. The tale of his at bat in Chicago, pointing to center field when he then “slammed the longest home run ever to be hit out of Wrigley Field” is part of our collective memory. This same scene has even been recreated in The Simpsons, to give some measure of its enduring aspect.

All of this is the stuff of legend. He was among the first five inductees into the Baseball Hall of Fame. I’ll give you an idea of just how popular the man was. More than a decade after his death, theaters would still show newsreels about Babe Ruth’s on field exploits. How do I know this? BECAUSE I WAS SITTING IN ONE OF THOSE THEATERS WATCHING THE BLACK AND WHITE FOOTAGE UNSPOOLING ON THE SCREEN. Considering that current home run record holders are struggling to eclipse the number 73 while in **1927 Ruth hit 60** , a record that would stand for almost **three and a half decades** , his accomplishments still rank among baseball’s highest.

Looking at the information gleaned from the linked website, I am not alone in this estimation. While culture is a more ephemeral component of history, much important anthropological information is transmitted through it. Be it fairy tales or films, many historic artifacts are derived from cultural icons. Yes, I know that there are another two of Ruth’s jerseys in the hands of museums. I just happen to think that this was a link to our nation’s past and seeing it carved up like a lunchtime ham was both ignoble and an insult to our nation’s collective memory.

Please try to remember that **I don’t even like sports**. Try to imagine how a few million Yankees fans feel right about now.

Some excerpts from [this](http://www.baberuth.com/flash/about/biograph3.html) site:

> [@](#):
>
> … After only five months with the Baltimore Orioles, Babe graduated to the major leagues and became a member of the Boston Red Sox. He pitched left and played outfield for the Red Sox for the next six years. The Babe became famous for his batting skills and personal charisma. He was also a first-rate pitcher. **Babe broke records in the 1918 World Series, pitching 29 innings without runs against him, a record that stood for 43 years**. In 1919, Babe shattered the home run records previously held by Gabby Kraveth and set the new record with 29 home runs that year.
> 
> … Babe played outfield for the Yankees, and shocked many when he literally shattered his home run record. **In 1920, he slammed an astounding 54 home runs over the fence, nearly double his previous record of 29**. When Babe joined the Yankees, the team had no home stadium of its own and was forced to share the New York Giants’ Polo Grounds. **Babe’s sensational home run hitting and celebrity status drew so many crowds that the team could afford to build Yankee Stadium, which they did in 1923. People nicknamed the stadium “The House that Ruth Built.”** Fittingly, he hit a home run on its opening day. **That same year, the Yankees won their first World Series**.
> 
> … **Between 1920 and 1934, Babe’s performance as a batter for the New York Yankees set records that stood for decades**. In 1927, he hit 60 home runs during a 154-game stretch. **This record stood until 1961, when it was broken by Roger Maris**. Considering that in 1919 Babe had broken the previous record of 24 home runs hit in one season, the fact that every year between 1920 and 1933 he exceeded it again was phenomenal. **He still holds the record for his .847 slugging average in 1920**. Major League Baseball had never seen a hitter like Babe. Writers attempted to capture a sense of his greatness by giving him nicknames from The Great Bambino to the Sultan of Swat. In the late 1920s and early 1930s, Babe and teammate Lou Gehrig were a dynamic duo of home run sluggers. The pair’s combined home run records towered over the totals of every other team in 1927 except one.
> 
> … Babe Ruth died on August 16, 1948 at Memorial Hospital in New York City at 53 years old. His body lay in state at the entrance of Yankee Stadium on August 17 and 18, and it is estimated that **over 100,000 people came to see him**. Thousands of fans surrounded New York’s St. Patrick’s Cathedral and the route to the Gate of Heaven Cemetery in Hawthorne, New York on the day of his funeral, as the world mourned the passing of Babe Ruth.
> 
> … Of all the players in baseball history, none has ever reached the mythic status of Babe Ruth. Since his death, Babe has continued to be formally recognized for his accomplishments. Among his other honors, **The Associated Press named Babe Athlete of the Century** in 1999 and **The Sporting News has named him the Greatest Player of All-Time**. These awards, along with many others Babe has received, reflect Babe’s prominence as one of the greatest athletes in American history.

[sup]EMPHASIS ADDED[/sup]

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**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/65 "2003-10-21T20:03:41Z")

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Well, in that case, I’d better redouble my cloning efforts. **Eonwe**? **Smeghead**? You guys on board with this?

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**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/66 "2003-10-21T20:04:19Z")

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It’s still a fucking shirt, privately owned I might add.

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**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/67 "2003-10-21T20:21:04Z")

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A copy of the Declaration of Independence just a fucking piece of paper, privately owned, I might add.

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**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/68 "2003-10-21T20:59:55Z")

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I’ll give you one final comparison, just for shits and giggles.

Armand Hammer bought a da Vinci codex. It contained a large number of incredibly beautiful hand drawings by the master. Much to the art world’s horror, Hammer had the codex unbound into individual pages. He then sent the singulated pages _en mass_ on a tour of the biggest museums. I had a chance to see the collection at the Getty museum in Malibu, California.

The drawings were absolutely stunning. I had seen many of them illustrated in other books all through my life (I admire da Vinci a lot). A chance to see so many of his works in one place was a dream of a lifetime. The images of swirling water, and human anatomy were simply amazing.

I WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD A SINGLE CHANCE IN MY ENTIRE LIFE TO SEE THESE DRAWINGS ANY OTHER WAY.

Instead, the codex would have remained bound and available only to a minuscule upper percentile of scholars. Hammer defied the art community and brought this fabulous collection of drawings to the public, as never before.

Let’s not confuse the above with what happened to the shirt in question. It was parted out in ignominious fashion and destroyed for all time. There is no credible public benefit whatsoever. There is minor benefit to a very few collectors and the Dunross company coffers, that is all. Cutting up a Honus Wagner baseball card and distributing its confetti makes equal sense. The American public has lost a part of its heritage and Dunross will go down in the books as a money grubbing company along with the likes of Manville and Union Carbide.

Yes, a private owner may do whatever they want with a given possession. It is up to the people to make sure that such flagrant disrespect for our nation’s culture is an unprofitable pursuit. Again, I am sure that in their greed, fans and collectors will ignore this completely and drive up the value of these scraps, while neglecting to notice how our nation’s history has been shredded just a little more.

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**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/69 "2003-10-21T21:10:42Z")

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(can’t seriously believe folks bringing up first editions of books, declaration of Independence etc. - it’s one fucking thing that a guy owned once. would we get all ga gaed over his socks? his jockeys? his undershirt? his suit? sheesh).

Can’t stop now, I’m off to New York to scroung around for Darryl Strawberry crack pipes. No telling **how much** they’ll be worth to my grandkids.

(brrr. that’s probably the coldest thing I’ve ever posted here)

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**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/70 "2003-10-21T21:13:00Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by seal\_cleaner \*  
> \*\*A copy of the Declaration of Independence just a fucking piece of paper, privately owned, I might add. \*\*

Would you drop the DoI please? We aren’t talking about the DoI, we are talking about a shirt. Furthermore if we were talking about the DoI, which we aren’t, but if we were, I am sure there would be an agreement to use the government’s power to seize the DoI and simply pay the owner for it. But, we aren’t talking about the DoI. We are talking about a shirt. That is all. On preview I see that **Zenster** now wants to compare a Ruth shirt to da Vinci. This is also silly. To respond further to **Zenster** all those records you have cited for the Babe are impressive, but they don’t prove that this shirt is valuable to history. Would you oppose tearing down the Babe’s grade-school? He undoubedly spent more time in that building than he did in the shirt. I suggest that neither one is important.

**Guinastasia** - You make me ill. “Think of the children, think of the children!!” Come off it. Mister Rodgers may be of sentimental value to some kids, he is not of historical importance.

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**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/71 "2003-10-21T21:13:07Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> How about giving it to the people in the form of a museum exhibit?

To which admission will be charged by those greedy bastard museum owners. Fuckers!

> [@](#):
>
> They’re giving it away with baseball cards at (I’m guessing) \<$1.00 a pack. 2100 slices of a $264,000 shirt means each slice is worth over a $100.00. I guess I’m not seeing the greedy profit mongering here.

Not sure what the current price is on a pack of baseball cards, but for the sake of argument let’s say it’s a dollar. Donruss is gambling that they will sell 15 or so packs of cards for each swatch to people hoping to get one or more swatches. 15 packs times 21,000 swatches is $315,000 which covers the cost of the shirt and probably the production cost of the cards. Add to that the publicity that selling bits of Babe Ruth’s shirt will generate for the company and the possibility that someone buying their baseball cards this year trying to get a swatch may buy other of their card products (not to mention card sleeves, albums, etc.) this year and then buy more cards from them next year, and the bean counters are rubbing their talons and clicking their shears in delight.

The idea that someone might get a swatch and sell it on eBay doesn’t enter into the companies calculations except inasmuch as the secondary market may create some demand for “wax packs” (sealed boxes of unopened card packs) and the desire to buy more card packs for that dollar in the hopes of getting the swatch to sell.

That being said, this is the sort of thing that turned me off collecting any kind of cards, and comics for that matter. I used to collect a number of comic titles and would sometimes buy non-sports collector cards. But I got completely disgusted at companies that would put out three (or more) different covers for the same issue or randomly insert hologram cards or whatever fucking gimmick to get consumers to buy more and more and more. Screw that shit, I don’t want a “complete” set of “Universal Studios Monsters on Film” or whatever so badly that I am going to buy dozens of extra packs in search of that elusive “Creature from the Black Lagoon with laser cut sparkly gills” card.

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**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/72 "2003-10-21T21:17:44Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> I don’t want a “complete” set of “Universal Studios Monsters on Film” or whatever so badly that I am going to buy dozens of extra packs in search of that elusive “Creature from the Black Lagoon with laser cut sparkly gills” card.

And you call yourself a fan.

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**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/73 "2003-10-21T21:32:05Z")

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I’m curious, if there 5 such shirts in existence would it be ok? 10? 100? 1000?

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**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/74 "2003-10-21T21:38:03Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by wring \*  
> \*\*(can’t seriously believe folks bringing up first editions of books, declaration of Independence etc. - it’s one fucking thing that a guy owned once. would we get all ga gaed over his socks? his jockeys? his undershirt? his suit? sheesh).  
> \*\*

Well, why is a book any more important than a shirt. It’s just stuff. The book has been reprinted, so what is to be learned from the original? There are two other copies of the book still out there, so what’s the big deal?

What makes it important is that people care about it. They see history in it. Some people love sports, others love literature. Some just don’t like to see noteworthy objects from the past destroyed.

People probably wouldn’t be as crazy over his socks because socks are not a major, recognizable part of a baseball uniform. Besides, how would you prove they were his socks? I’m assuming players wouldn’t have their names inthem. But if they did, I bet someone would be interested.

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**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/75 "2003-10-21T21:43:13Z")

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I’m a little disappointed with all the “your stupid its just a shirt” replies here. Sports are dumb, the thinking seems to go, therefore they’re insignificant history. Good thing the Romans didn’t think to slice and dice gladiator helmets, or maybe we wouldn’t know about them. 😉 Regardless of whether sports are important - and obviously they’re not as important as the Declaration of Independence, but that wasn’t the point of the comparison - history is something that’s better preserved than sliced up.

The Armand Hammer thing is interesting as an example of sharing history with people, but I don’t think it’s quite the same. The intact Ruth jersey was something any fan of baseball could enjoy. 1" by 1" cloth squares have no value to most people; only the fanatically obsessed collectors of baseball memorabilia who have thousands of dollars to throw around after a scrap of the Babe’s shirt will appreciate this. You’d think a _baseball card company_ would give a shit about the history of _baseball_. Without Ruth, there might not be anyone interested in their product anyway.

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**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/76 "2003-10-21T21:46:05Z")

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sweetie pie - the difference between the first edition of a book and a shirt some guy owned is that the **book** itself has importance. The shirt, OTOH, is only considered ‘important’ cause some guy wore it once.

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**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/77 "2003-10-21T22:06:36Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by wring \*  
> \*\*sweetie pie - the difference between the first edition of a book and a shirt some guy owned is that the **book** itself has importance. The shirt, OTOH, is only considered ‘important’ cause some guy wore it once. \*\*

Pumpkin nuts, isn’t it the “words” in the book that are important? The book itself is just a means to get the words to you. Who cares whether it’s the first one or the hundred and first one?

The shirt can be seen in historical footage of Babe Ruth playing baseball. It was a present and important part of Babe Ruth’s career. It identified him as a member of a team. Unless he was playing skins, then he wouldn’t have needed a shirt at all.

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**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/78 "2003-10-21T22:08:52Z")

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It played an important part of his career?

Whoa…

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**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/79 "2003-10-21T22:17:43Z")

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Yes, it was part of his career. It was his uniform. it’s what he wore when he did the thing people loved him for. It’s what identified him. I didn’t say the shirt hit the home runs or that the shirt got sold to the Yankees, but it was part of his legacy. Much in the way that a civil war soldier’s uniform was part of his career and is now valuable. Or that Elvis’ jumpsuit was part of his stage presence. Or that Archie Bunker’s chair was part of his. it’s something identifiable to that person. Uniforms are very important to sports fans, otherwise they wouldn’t all be running around in jerseys that bear the name and number of their favorite player.

Would a pen used by Shakespeare be a useless piece of junk?

I think some people are discounting it because it’s sports-related.

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**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-grubbing-shitheads-slice-and-dice-a-piece-of-history/208582/80 "2003-10-21T22:22:35Z")

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And please spare me the “How can you compare a civil war soldier to some baseball player?!”. I’m comparing their uniforms and the pride with which they wore them.

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