# Money in Trump - Clinton election campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 9, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283 "2016-12-09T15:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/21 "2016-12-09T17:33:10Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [How Much Less Than Hillary Clinton Donald Trump Spent On the Election | Fortune](http://fortune.com/2016/12/09/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-campaign-spending/) > > and [http://metrocosm.com/2016-election-spending/](http://metrocosm.com/2016-election-spending/) > > Apparently Clinton outraised and outspent Trump by huge (yuge?) margins. About double. And that’s both in campaign funds and PAC funds. > > So - is it one-off, or is the importance of money in politics waning? Or maybe past a certain threshold you get very much diminishing returns? I wish I had a cite, but I have the impression that political scientists think the more-money-wins-elections view is pretty discredited. Linda McMahon’s two failed Senate campaigns are examples of how an even greater spending margin than Clinton’s is no guarantee of victory. (I believe Meg Whitman and Fiorina also outspent their Senate opponents pretty heartily? Sorry to use rich GOP women as all of my examples - not intentional.) Edit: oh, hey, there’s Jeb! Bush this year in the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/22 "2016-12-09T17:38:06Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Look at the last 10 or so Presidents. Which one was not narcissistic and vain? Maybe Carter - maybe. Bush the Senior, maybe. But others - definitely. Don’t you think those sides of their character played a role in their reaching Presidency and then trying to succeed? > > The Presidency (politics in general, but Presidency in particular) naturally attracts the narcissists and the vain. So do some other areas of endeavor, such as show business. But then, politics is sometimes called show business for ugly people. Hey, if you vague it up enough _anybody_ can serve as your example. :rolleyes: You’ve got nothing that comes within a mile of Trump, and you know it-give up. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/23 "2016-12-09T17:42:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The money doesn’t need to be spent if you get a lot of free publicity from the press, which Trump did through both the novelty of his running at the beginning, and then the high level of somewhat insane antics from both him and his supporters throughout his campaign. On Question Time last night, Louise Mensh had an interesting observation: she said that the Press took Trump literally but not seriously whereas the voters took him seriously but not literally. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/24 "2016-12-09T17:43:44Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Linda McMahon’s two failed Senate campaigns are examples of how an even greater spending margin than Clinton’s is no guarantee of victory. Linda learned that sometimes it isn’t how much you spend, but where you spend it. She gave $5 million to The Donald J. Trump [del]Slush Fund[/del]Foundation, and that _certainly_ paid off for her. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/25 "2016-12-09T17:44:55Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > On Question Time last night, Louise Mensh had an interesting observation: she said that the Press took Trump literally but not seriously whereas the voters took him seriously but not literally. I agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/26 "2016-12-09T17:54:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hey, if you vague it up enough _anybody_ can serve as your example. :rolleyes: You’ve got nothing that comes within a mile of Trump, and you know it-give up. If you admit that narcissism and vanity play a positive role in the politician’s drive to succeed (as you seem to), then it’s not that much of a leap to say more of those qualities would lead to higher drive to succeed. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/27 "2016-12-09T18:02:15Z")
for historical reference - > [@Okrahoma](#): > > [How Much Less Than Hillary Clinton Donald Trump Spent On the Election | Fortune](http://fortune.com/2016/12/09/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-campaign-spending/) > > and [http://metrocosm.com/2016-election-spending/](http://metrocosm.com/2016-election-spending/) > > Apparently Clinton outraised and outspent Trump by huge (yuge?) margins. About double. And that’s both in campaign funds and PAC funds. > > So - is it one-off, or is the importance of money in politics waning? Or maybe past a certain threshold you get very much diminishing returns? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nice “Hillary” deflection, but I’ve heard it used before and it still doesn’t answer why they believed _him_-a man without an altruistic bone in his body and a best-selling book on how to deal with rubes. Think you can turn the “Hillary! Hillary, Hillary!” filter off for two seconds and answer my question? “Deflection”? This thread is about Hillary outspending Trump and still managing to lose her 2nd attempt to become POTUS. Why believe Trump? Because he’s not Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/28 "2016-12-09T18:06:16Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > If you admit that narcissism and vanity play a positive role in the politician’s drive to succeed (as you seem to), then it’s not that much of a leap to say more of those qualities would lead to higher drive to succeed. Your quote was: > [@Okrahoma](#): > > Here’s a line of thinking I heard a lot - the “belief” was that the narcissistic billionaire without an altruistic bone in his body, by the nature of his narcissism and enormous vanity, would want to do absolutely the best job possible to make his presidency a successful one. Precisely because of the overarching narcissism and vanity. He would want to be remembered well. Trump doesn’t seem to want to be remembered well. Trump wants to be well-remembered, the difference being that he doesn’t care what people say about him, _as long as they are talking about him, and it doesn’t interfere with is money-making schemes._ If he has to choose between doing the good that is needed and the bad that will bring publicity and/or profit there is no question as to which he will pick. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/29 "2016-12-09T18:08:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your quote was: Trump doesn’t seem to want to be remembered well. Trump wants to be well-remembered, the difference being that he doesn’t care what people say about him, _as long as they are talking about him, and it doesn’t interfere with is money-making schemes._ If he has to choose between doing the good that is needed and the bad that will bring publicity and/or profit there is no question as to which he will pick. That’s a belief. But you asked what other people may have believed about Trump. You may not agree with it, but it is a valid belief. But anyway, this line of argument has nothing to do with the money-in-politics topic of the OP… ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/30 "2016-12-09T19:52:50Z")
It’s a nice conclusion, and one I’m partial to (that money in politics isn’t as big a deal as people make it out to be, despite appearances otherwise). But can we quantify the “free” publicity that Trump got? Because most of the money politicians raise goes to buying air time and other forms of publicity, and Trump got most of his without spending a dime. It might very well be that if you count up value of the air time “donated” to Trump by the media, he could have been the one outspending Clinton. He just didn’t pay for it out of his own pocket or campaign fund. Sort of a Washington version of “Hollywood accounting”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/31 "2016-12-09T19:57:15Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That’s a belief. But you asked what other people may have believed about Trump. You may not agree with it, but it is a valid belief. But anyway, this line of argument has nothing to do with the money-in-politics topic of the OP… True, plus your the OP and just one more counter point > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your quote was: Trump doesn’t seem to want to be remembered well. Trump wants to be well-remembered, the difference being that he doesn’t care what people say about him, _as long as they are talking about him, and it doesn’t interfere with is money-making schemes._ If he has to choose between doing the good that is needed and the bad that will bring publicity and/or profit there is no question as to which he will pick. I can almost see Donald Trump in a bed with gold bed post with his lovely first lady in Trump Tower on Saturday night watching SNL and saying hand me my gold iphone honey as he tweets his dissatisfaction to the world (every Saturday night so far). ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283/32 "2016-12-10T00:21:53Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Here is a chilling reason why Trump won, because the deplorable people wanted change:[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/12/09/daily-202-trump-over-performed-the-most-in-counties-with-the-highest-drug-alcohol-and-suicide-mortality-rates/584a2a59e9b69b7e58e45f2e/?utm\_term=.fe4cd87581e8](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/12/09/daily-202-trump-over-performed-the-most-in-counties-with-the-highest-drug-alcohol-and-suicide-mortality-rates/584a2a59e9b69b7e58e45f2e/?utm_term=.fe4cd87581e8) > > Trump over performed the most in counties with the highest drug, alcohol and suicide mortality rates > [@Czarcasm](#): > > And why did they think a person who spent his whole life thinking of, and working for, no one but himself would help them? Why did they believe him? They probably didn’t. They saw that the brass ring had passed them by and believed four more years following the same path was not going to turn their situation around. Change just for the sake of change appeared to be a viable option. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-in-trump-clinton-election-campaign/774283.md?page=1)