# Money Laundering **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862 "2012-02-05T14:24:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/21 "2012-02-08T17:02:36Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I once deposited a $50k personal check into my checking account as part of a real estate thing. Two weeks later I got a cashiers check to a title agency and spent the money. I’ve been curious what happened behind the scenes in those two weeks. The deposit was surely reported and anyone who did the minimal of investigation would see it was from a stranger (as opposed to a business associate or family) but two weeks later the paper trail probably made sense. Did they get access to my account and watch it for six months? Did they run an extensive background check on me? Did they prepare a bed for me at Gitmo? > > In reality, i bet they have enough backlog that they never looked at it until long after it made sense anyway, but it always makes me curious to think what goes on behind the scenes. The money laundering arm is looking for people depositing hard cash in large amounts. A cheque or similar is for transfering electrons from one bank to another. It may trigger something with the IRS, but the money-laundering people don’t care about domestic bank-to-bank transfers unless it seems like a way to aggregate cash into legitimate bank deposits. The other problem with cheques that makes banks wait a long time - see the movie “Catch Me If You Can”. Even in the 50’s some crooks figured out a way to create cheques that did not get flagged as nvalid until after they had been in process for a few weeks. There was a scam going around about 5 to 10 years ago, where someone bought something, say on Ebay, then badly over-paid with a cashier’s cheque or othe legit-seeming instrument. They asked you to send them the excess in cash, or cashier’s cheque, or whatever. These cheques passed the first round of validation, but when they were actually processed by the “issuing” bank, they were frauds. I recall at least one case where the recipient asked the bank several times if it was legit, was told it was. When they finally disallowed it, he sued, and won because he had received assurances from the bank and had proceeded on their advice. So odds are the delay was the bank was covering it’s assets, not calling the IRS. So then… if let’s say you sold your house or business, how would the IRS ever know that there was a tax to be collected. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/22 "2012-02-08T17:09:51Z")
> [@sbright33](#): > > How hard is it to deposit money in your own bank account without explaining it’s source or filling out those forms? > > Let’s say you have $200k in cash altogether. \*\*Can you deposit $9,900 21x? > Over how many weeks? \*\* > > Of course this money is legal so there is no risk of getting arrested for a serious crime. > > Is it possible to open an account with a false SSN by mistake? Former programmer here who has worked for different banks and financial institutions. No, you can not skirt reporting laws by splitting your transactions into amounts that come in just under the limit. I’ve worked on reports that listed all transactions over, I believe it was $7,000 (it’s been a few years, I don’t remember the exact amount). Upon receiving these reports, someone will check your transaction history. Oh, and I believe I’ve also been told that transactions _Totaling_ x amount In x number of months will trigger reports and investigations. There is no way that I am aware of to get around federal reporting laws. And if this is legit, why are you trying to? Depositing large amounts of money is not illegal, the IRS just wants to make sure it has a legit source. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/23 "2012-02-08T17:34:43Z")
> [@sbright33](#): > > By not exactly I mean… Not even close! Same first initial. This is the policy, or lack of policy at a major bank is SoCal. They had no reason to be suspicious with a copy of a valid DL. The automated system only verifies the validity of the SSN. It does not attempt to link it to the DL or name on the account. That is up to the discretion of the employee. Maybe it would have come up later. But not in the 2 months it took to do the transactions. You’re right, they will eventually contact the account holder to make them fix the “mistake”. It is true that historically, the SSN for banks and many other institutions was just an “arbitrary” unique field identifier in their database, and so they didn’t have to care whether it was yours or not as long as no one else in their system had the same number. That’s because that wasn’t the original purpose of the SSN. So many institutions have been “catching up.” When I first opened a Wells Fargo account at the age of 18 one of the digits in my SSN was mistakenly transposed. I didn’t say anything, just curious to see what would happen. Once I started to use the account a lot, they sent me a letter telling me to come in with photo ID and Social Security card to confirm what the actual number was. But the mistaken number was either the number of a completely different person, or one that didn’t exist at all. ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/24 "2012-02-08T17:38:02Z")
What happened to just stuffing money in your mattress? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/25 "2012-02-08T17:51:56Z")
What if you spread those deposits around several differnt banks? There’s not a single data clearinghouse for deposit information, is there? ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/26 "2012-02-08T18:21:37Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > So I have about $250,000 in my basement safe. > > :eek: did I just post that out loud?! > > Okay, it’s off to the bank. Having read this thread I’m not going to take any chances with structuring, so I’m going to present all of my actual ID and deposit it into my actual account. > > When (if?) the IRS comes calling and I tell them that I’ve socked away about fifteen grand a year for the past 20 or so years, what could they possibly do? I’ve filed modest 1040EZs and worked the same job at Spacely Sprockets all along. Or maybe I’ve filed some fairly complicated returns and owned a cash-intensive business for a few years. Basically, if there’s no proof of anything screwy (just odd habits), who has the burden of demonstrating the (il)legitimacy of the funds. > > Didn’t we just have a thread on this? Well, if you have $250k and are heading to the bank with I would drive VERY CAREFULLY. If the cops pull you over and see you have a large amount of cash, they will take it. Doesn’t matter if that cash is 100% legal, you have it and they want it. Police have a great racket going: 1: Pull someone over with a bit of money on them’ 2: Declare said money illegal, just because you can and confiscate 3: Profit??? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/27 "2012-02-08T18:29:16Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > What if you spread those deposits around several differnt banks? There’s not a single data clearinghouse for deposit information, is there? There sure is. It’s called the IRS. Since there is a SSN attached to all your transactions, all institutions, it’s easy-peasy for the IRS to add those up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/28 "2012-02-08T19:01:52Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > What if you spread those deposits around several differnt banks? There’s not a single data clearinghouse for deposit information, is there? As covered in the other thread, that is still a serious Federal offense. ---
**Author:** ![KneeSid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dec6dc/32.png) [@KneeSid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneeSid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/29 "2012-02-08T19:28:29Z")
I’ve read quite a bit about this, and one of the ways money launderers work is to bribe bank tellers or to put their own people in place. You can’t pass a structured audit, but key people in the bank will overlook it and should it ever come to light the launderer is long gone and they can pass it off as a one time error. Usually when you see how launderers get caught it involves putting their own people in, or paying someone at the bank off ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/30 "2012-02-08T20:37:09Z")
NO! Look, if you deposit over $10000, the bank will fill out a CTR. It’s no biggie. No one looks at a CTR, it doesn’t call out the hounds or anything. IF you get audited for another issue, it will show up sure, and if you are under investigation for other crimes, they will find it. But for 99.99% of CTR, no one knows or cares. It does not trigger a audit. As long as your source is legal, and you are not under investigation for any crimes, just deposit the cash- all at once. Or, Ok if you already have two accounts at different bank, not so bad to split it between them, sure. There are ways to see if you split $200K between 21 banks. The IRS does not track transactions, unless you are already under audit. But if you deposit multiple cash transactions under the $10000 limit, this is called “structuring” and it is a federal Crime in itself. The Bank will file a SAR, which will be looked at by the FBI, IRS, etc, which may trigger a audit etc. Actually the clearinghouse is FINCEN, not the IRS per se. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/31 "2012-02-08T20:42:31Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Just curious but I remember back around 2005-2006 seeing signs in spanish in a USA bank saying they accepted ID issued by the Mexican government, how exactly can that be verified? > > This is not some right wing rumor either, it was in a area of Houston primarily populated by spanish speaking immigrants. I am guessing: [Matrícula Consular](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matr%C3%ADcula_Consular). We took them, I am sure most US banks do, too. They are valid in the same way that a Belgian passport is a valid form of photo ID. My one SAR I filed went like this: grumpy old man tried to put \>$10k in. I started to ask the CTR questions, he groused and asked to deposit something like $9,900. I agreed and finished his transaction. As soon as he left, I closed my window and filed a SAR based upon his info and what I knew about the transaction. I don’t know if he was doing anything illegal, but it is a requirement that I do the SAR anyway. > [@DrDeth](#): > > NO! Look, if you deposit over $10000, the bank will fill out a CTR. It’s no biggie. Some customers also did daily CTRs. They ran large cash businesses, so it was no big deal. There is also the Monetary Instrument Log, which you must file when a customer buys \>$3000 worth of money orders or cashier’s/official checks. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/32 "2012-02-08T22:30:26Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > It is true that historically, the SSN for banks and many other institutions was just an “arbitrary” unique field identifier in their database, and so they didn’t have to care whether it was yours or not as long as no one else in their system had the same number. That’s because that wasn’t the original purpose of the SSN. So many institutions have been “catching up.” > > When I first opened a Wells Fargo account at the age of 18 one of the digits in my SSN was mistakenly transposed. I didn’t say anything, just curious to see what would happen. Once I started to use the account a lot, they sent me a letter telling me to come in with photo ID and Social Security card to confirm what the actual number was. But the mistaken number was either the number of a completely different person, or one that didn’t exist at all. I know the Canadian Social Insyurance Number (9 digits) the 9th digit is a checksum. IIRC the algorithm was something like sum of odd digits plus tow times sum of even digits, use the final digit of that total. This means that if you made up some random number or transposed a pair(most common mistake) you only had a 1 in10 chance of the SIN passing the first validity test. Then it could be identity-checked. I assume SSN’s have a similar transposition-prevention checksum? If someone else has an account in their SSN and fail to declare even the miserly interest income, odds are sooner or later it sets off red flags. After all, the bank probably sends in declarations to the IRS of SSN and interest paid; the IRS then verifies this was entered onto the SSN’s income tax statement. At least, that’s how it works in Canada. Why do you think they wanted the SSN to open an account? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/33 "2012-02-08T23:11:58Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I assume SSN’s have a similar transposition-prevention checksum? Nope. SSN is 29 years older than SIN, maybe they didn’t think about it then. The first three digits tell you where the person was born/registered, and roughly when they were born because the middle digits are assigned in a certain order. The last four are serial. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/34 "2012-02-09T14:34:08Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I have read there are also computer programs that look at cash flows and determine situations that are suspicious and need investigating. Cash deposits to the same account over a length of time amounting to a large sum will likely raise a red flag for the money laundering team. [For example…](http://www.sas.com/news/feature/20march06/aml.html) (I use SAS, but not in the financial industry - they are into **a lot** of different areas of life). ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/35 "2012-02-09T17:46:04Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#): > > Depositing large amounts of money is not illegal, the IRS just wants to make sure it has a legit source. IRS could care less about how you got the money, only that you pay proper taxes on it. ---
**Author:** ![sbright33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@sbright33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbright33)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/36 "2012-02-10T00:08:52Z")
There is so much misinformation out there. Even in this thead. There is so much you can get away with at a large institution. It may change every year, so you never know. I agree with the posters who said that SSN’s are not always checked. That has been my experience more often than not, as recently as last year! ---
**Author:** ![sbright33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@sbright33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbright33)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/37 "2012-02-10T00:15:26Z")
Structuring is illegal because its a great way to hide or launder money! IF you can get away with it… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/38 "2012-02-10T00:31:51Z")
> [@sbright33](#): > > Let’s say you have $200k in cash altogether. > > \ > > Of course this money is legal so there is no risk of getting arrested for a serious crime. Planning on selling [your rock](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=641035)? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sbright33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@sbright33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbright33)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/39 "2012-02-10T01:00:27Z")
Hey you’re following me! I would sell it, if it were hollow inside like a Geode. How can I find out? Otherwise it is only \< $1/pound… ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862/40 "2012-02-10T02:29:17Z")
> [@sbright33](#): > > Interesting answers. I watched someone do both of the original things in my question. Banks do not usually check to make sure the SSN matches the name on the account, according to a friend who is an employee. If they do look at all, they don’t make sure it is exact. As long as the last name matches. They might ask questions after 10 repeat deposits, but they are informal and do not always trigger any paperwork. They want us to be scared! If you already know the answer to your “question” why did you post this in GQ? It appears you are more interested in debating the subject of money laundering and structuring versus finding a factual answer like the ones provided by the people in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-laundering/611862.md?page=3)