# Mongolian Folk Rock **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2018, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770 "2018-12-27T03:10:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/41 "2019-10-11T16:28:29Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Takes years to get good at it. Regular schlubs just use their vocal chords to make speech. These guys pay attention to the whole larynx and other bits of the throat and tongue. [Here’s a walk through](https://didgeproject.com/voice/tuvan-throat-singing-basics/). If you’ve got nothing to do all day every day for decades except scan the heath for wolves while your herd slowly turns grass into hair, you could get pretty good at using all the real estate between your chest and lips to make all manner of noises not normally heard in polite company. Cool! I probably ought not try it here at work, but it’s something to do on the drive home.😛 I wonder if it’s harmful, or possibly good for you in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/42 "2019-10-11T17:23:40Z")
Makes me cough till I nearly pass out. So maybe not on the drive home ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/43 "2019-10-11T18:50:05Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I think…oh…yes. Yep, I just ovulated. Yeah, I love me some Central Asian cheekbones. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/44 "2019-10-12T06:06:48Z")
Whelp, I missed this thread the first time around. Just watched the vids in ExTank’s op (along with some of the stuff posted by others) and while I dunno about crushing and driving my enemies before me, surely the airag is ready by now? I suddenly want to try some. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/45 "2019-10-12T15:54:02Z")
It’s been something of a source of amusement to me how, in the 1980s, metal bands deliberately mocked traditional “folk” styles - I can remember a couple of songs that started with some old-style record playing, interrupted by a needle scratch, and then the screaming guitars and vocals came in (Example: [Fast as a Shark](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTeXBTStek0)) - and now metal bands are deliberately incorporating folk/traditional elements into the music. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/46 "2019-10-12T19:16:31Z")
It’s always been the case that skilled musicians, of any genre, will incorporate bits and pieces of other genres that they’re exposed to. It’s just more noticeable now, now that we have the Internet and can more easily share music (both so the artists can be exposed to more variety, and so the good works that result can be more widely spread). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/47 "2019-10-13T00:24:27Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > It’s been a year since you wrote that, but if you’re still interested, here ya go. > [https://www.thehuofficial.com/](https://www.thehuofficial.com/) Well, well… says there they happen to be touring the USA right now… ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/48 "2019-10-13T04:00:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s always been the case that skilled musicians, of any genre, will incorporate bits and pieces of other genres that they’re exposed to. It’s just more noticeable now, now that we have the Internet and can more easily share music (both so the artists can be exposed to more variety, and so the good works that result can be more widely spread). Indeed - I always enjoy finding things like bluegrass renditions of metal songs. One hilarious side effect of that kind of thing, though, is the inevitable fan of the original artist in the comment section, raging about how, “James Hetfield would be so pissed off if he saw this!”, completely failing to understand that most actual musicians don’t just listen to their own genre, and in fact for a lot of them, the genre they’re famous for is simply the genre they “got lucky” with after trying their hand at a variety of other styles. I mean, witness videos on YouTube of Bon Scott singing backup in a bubblegum pop band, and later singing lead and playing the recorder in a prog band, in the years before he got famous with AC/DC. But I’m talking more about how a lot of metal bands now feature “folk” instruments, played on a regular basis by regular members of the band, as opposed to bringing them in “as needed” as a novelty. There’s a Finnish band called Turisas that includes a violin and an accordion, and though there are guitars in the band, the violinist is the “lead” player, [providing most of the solos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7woW7DmnR0E). ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/49 "2019-10-13T04:38:30Z")
Well, it looks like tonight is going to be a folk metal night! 😃 Just in case anyone is looking for more bands that combine rock/metal with traditional instruments and styles I’ll recommend [Eluveitie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-pSq4MJmy8), [Korpiklaani](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB7PyLYQyXg), and the mighty [Tyr](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR5_ifgxJpU), a band that despite being a “normal” four man metal band incorporates traditional Faroese folk songs into their work. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/50 "2019-10-25T20:10:18Z")
There is a blurred/censored ring on a biker’s hand at 5:12 in [The Hu’s “The Wolf Totem” video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc). Got me curious, so I started searching for more info. I was disappointed by what I found. [[Album] The HU (Mongolian Metal) & The NeoNazis ![](https://i.imgur.com/R9IAfMa.jpeg?fb "The HU (Mongolian Metal) & The NeoNazis") ](https://imgur.com/gallery/BocV2og) > **[Tsagaan Khas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsagaan_Khas)** > > Final solution > Tsagaan Khas (Mongolian: Цагаан Хас, lit. 'white swastika') is a Mongolian neo-Nazi organisation. It was founded by Ariunbold Altankhuum in the 1990s, amid Mongolia's transition to a market economy and the resulting increase in economic inequality. > The group claims to have 3,000 members, but Reuters reported in 2013 that it had "only 100-plus members", while Mongolian historian Nyam Puruv estimated in 2009 that the group actually had only "dozens of members". The organisation's e... As the OP in the imgur thread points out: > [@the OP in the above-linked imgur thread](#): > > I’m not saying THE HU are necesary neonazis, but they made the artistic and director’s choice of making a datailed close up on that (and only that) ring. > > And they invited a neonazi biker gang to be a part of their video. I am aware that the existence of the [swastika symbol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika) long predates Nazi Germany. There is a Mongolian version of the swastika that likewise has long history, but near as I can tell, it’s always displayed as if it’s resting on its side, i.e. with one side of it horizontal, [like this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_shamanism#/media/File:SwastikaCW.svg) The ring on the biker’s finger (see pic at top of imgr link above) is rotated 45 degrees, like [the Nazi swastika.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#/media/File:Flag_of_the_NSDAP_(1920%E2%80%931945).svg) To me, “The Wolf Totem” and its video now seem a little bit less like like a badass anthem to victory in battle, and a little bit more like a xenophobic warning to outgroups. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/51 "2019-10-28T10:28:27Z")
Well, that’s disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/52 "2019-11-05T03:28:25Z")
The last I checked, The Nazis were in favor only of Caucasian people, and would not be supporting a band of Mongolians. I do think this is a misinterpretation of the symbol. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/53 "2019-11-05T05:14:39Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The ring on the biker’s finger (see pic at top of imgr link above) is rotated 45 degrees, like [the Nazi swastika.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#/media/File:Flag_of_the_NSDAP_(1920%E2%80%931945).svg) Except it’s not a swastika. It is a [cross pattée](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_patt%C3%A9e). The swastika has cross members at right angles to the four arms unlike the cross pattée. The cross pattée does have some mental association with the Third Reich. The Iron Cross had a history as a Prussian later German military award. It also had other historical uses such as by the Knights Templar. Under the Nazis they redesigned the medal to include a swastika at the center of the cross used for the medal. After a break because of the association, and not having a military, a cross pattée became the identification symbol for the Bundeswehr in 1956. You can see it [here](https://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/a/bwde/start) on the Bundeswehr’s homepage in the top left corner. It took a little longer to see an award based on the cross pattée to be reintroduced. That was not until 1980. The highest military award in the Bundeswehr looks like [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr_Cross_of_Honour_for_Valour#/media/File:Ehrenkreuz_Bundeswehr_Tapferkeit_1.jpg). Like the Iron Cross before it the Cross of Honour has multiple orders all using the cross pattée as the base. Germany is not doing a very good job of implementing their laws against overt Nazi symbols if what is on that ring is one. Then there is the Anti Defamation League [take](https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/iron-cross) on the iron cross. > [@](#): > > In the United States, however, the Iron Cross also became one of several Nazi-era symbols adopted by outlaw bikers, more to signify rebellion or to shock than for any white supremacist ideology. By the early 2000s, this other use of the Iron Cross had spread from bikers to skateboarders and many extreme sports enthusiasts and became part of the logo of several different companies producing equipment and clothing for this audience. Consequently, the use of the Iron Cross in a non-racist context has greatly proliferated in the United States, to the point that an Iron Cross in isolation (i.e., without a superimposed swastika or without other accompanying hate symbols) cannot be determined to be a hate symbol. Care must therefore be used to correctly interpret this symbol in whatever context in which it may be found. I’d suggest we not apply a more stringent test than the ADL uses to identify Nazis. Otherwise we get a lot of false positives. Those false positives would include labeling Angela Merkel a Nazi for being Chancellor of a country actively using the cross pattée. So for context we have a motorcycle club involved in filming the video. Enlarging the shot of the ring I can read “choppers” written on it in English. That suggests a link to US non-racist uses of the imagery. In the absence of “other accompanying hate symbols,” IMO we shouldn’t jump to any conclusions. Maybe they just asked the band to show off their motorcycle club ring in return for participating in the video. Maybe they wanted to highlight the rebellious, not hate inspired, meaning sometimes attached to the Iron Cross. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/54 "2019-11-05T10:51:13Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Except it’s not a swastika. It is a [cross pattée](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_patt%C3%A9e). The swastika has cross members at right angles to the four arms unlike the cross pattée. I don’t know WTF you’re looking at, but this: [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](https://imgur.com/VLx8cyJ) is most definitely a swastika ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/55 "2019-11-05T13:29:02Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > I don’t know WTF you’re looking at, but this: [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](https://imgur.com/VLx8cyJ) is most definitely a swastika Exactly. There’s no resemblance to an iron cross. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770/56 "2019-11-05T13:41:42Z")
Well, the Hu do have that “Yuve Yuve” song smashing up the internet and satellite radio right now, so… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mongolian-folk-rock/826770.md?page=2)