# Monica Lewinski, slut or victim ? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022 "2020-03-06T17:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/241 "2020-03-23T02:39:54Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Bill Clinton had no goddam business bedding his intern. Period. It creates an environment where other interns need to worry that that’s the way one gets ahead. > > As for Hillary, had she been informed that she could not expect sexual exclusivity? > > I’m poly. (big surprise; sorry I know I’ve made an issue of it a bit too often, but I think I shouldn’t assume everyone reading this already knows). > > I once got intimate with a married woman who hadn’t officially given her husband notice that he couldn’t expect monogamous exclusivity. They’d been on the outs for quite a while and HE had had outside-the-marriage dalliances. But the fact remains that we were doing this behind his back. > > I went into it thinking “I don’t subscribe to this whole sexual possessiveness shit”. But at 4 am he was banging on the door and I wasn’t at all feeling good about it. Turns out he was banging on the WRONG door, accusing someone down the hall of being with his wife. (We were stifling our giggles at this point). > > But it condensed in me the attitude that if a married person (or a nonmarried person who has promised exclusivity to a partner, for that matter) hasn’t rescinded their exclusivity, it’s beneath my dignity and below my sense of behavioral okayness to go there. I don’t regard it as being the partner’s authority to approve or disapprove it, but he (or she, as the case might be) needs to be at least _informed_ that this is how it is now. > > I think even if you’re poly or otherwise not sexually exclusive, it is not kosher to be with someone who has made sexually exclusive promises to someone else. Yes, it’s primarily _their_ responsibility to deal with whatever promises they have made. But you’re participating in deceiving someone and that’s wrong. So the marriage oath can be rescinded? So if a man tells his wife that he intends to be polygamous (and she is in no position to be able to leave him), then it’s cool because at least he didn’t do it behind her back? That woman made decisions and took actions based on the promise that they would be partners for life. If you are going to have an open marriage, shouldn’t that be clear from the outset so you know what you are getting into? In some cultures, the polite thing to do is to lie convincingly with a discreet mistress so that you don’t rub her nose in it. And that goes both ways if it’s the wife that has the power to be able to dictate terms of marriage. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/242 "2020-03-23T02:40:25Z")
No, I certainly did not blame Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/243 "2020-03-23T02:40:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Please tell me you did NOT just blame _Hillary_? He seemed to portray her as a bit of a victim. AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/244 "2020-03-23T03:15:36Z")
Okay, that’s fine. It just seems like you were saying, “well, she should’ve known that if her husband wasn’t going to agree to being monogamous in the first place”, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/245 "2020-03-23T03:28:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Who do you imagine is the most common culprit of slut-shaming? Do you think men accuse women of being sluts more frequently or do you think its women? Please explain why it would matter. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/246 "2020-03-23T03:32:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A lot of the stuff you say is hyperbole. > > Now it’s monstrously misogynistic? What happened to profund? > > Who do you imagine is the most common culprit of slut-shaming? > > Do you think men accuse women of being sluts more frequently or do you think its women? Why do you think your question would matter? Are you under the delusion that something can only be sexist if men say it? What matters is how the term is used. A “slut” is a woman who likes sex “too much.” Slut shaming is an attempt to socially punish her for this. It is about putting women in their place. This same idea does not occur with men, who are studs or players or whatever if they have a lot of sex, and never get told their clothing choices are too sexy. When you have a negative term that only applies to one sex when both do the same behaviors, that term is sexist. The bigger the discrepancy, the more profoundly sexist it is. Men started the concept because they are in charge. Some women give into it, because it allows them to “virtue signal” that they aren’t sluts and thus worthy of desire. None of this is complicated in the slightest. * * * What I never get on this board is the snarky ignorance. You could have just went and read a simple article on slut-shaming. You could have informed yourself. But, instead, you attack **iiandyiii** with snark for statements you haven’t even fact checked. Nothing makes you look stupider than heavy snark when you’re factually wrong. So why risk it? Slutshaming is misogynistic. It’s about punishing women for enjoying sex. It does not punish men. Thus it is sexist towards women. And, of course, many women give in to sexism. None of this should be new information for anyone who actually cares about the subject. And, again, snark remains a poor form of argument. It cannot replace facts. Why not go read some? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/247 "2020-03-23T05:50:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Who do you imagine is the most common culprit of slut-shaming? > > Do you think men accuse women of being sluts more frequently or do you think its women? This doesn’t matter in the least, and just shows your ignorance yet again. Society and culture are too blame. Men and women are both part of society and culture. If women and girls are taught to slut shame, then they will do so, but that doesn’t make society less misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/248 "2020-03-23T05:58:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This is not an argument. This is vomiting wiki links on a post and hoping something sticks. > > I still don’t see evidence of this “profound misogyny” that you claim exists in the USA. A country that is significantly more progressive on women’s rights than the vast majority of countries in the world. So by your standard, the entire fucking world is profoundly misogynistic. > > Why not just admit you were talking out of your ass again and using hyperbole instead actual arguments because your arguments were too weak to support your over the top position? > > You want to say that it was wrong to slut-shame Monica Lewinsky? Sure, I can be convinced that is the case. You want to use it as proof that America is Profoundly misogynistic, you’re going to need more. You’re going to need stuff not in evidence. The fact that most rapes and sexual assaults go unreported is very clear evidence that society is profoundly misogynistic. The fact that a likely rapist is president is clear evidence that society is profoundly misogynistic. The fact that many politicians have no fear of nominating or voting to confirm a credibly accused rapist to SCOTUS is clear evidence. The fact that we’ve never had a woman president is clear evidence. The fact that most women and girls experience sexual harassment or abuse, mostly with no consequences for their harassers or abusers, is clear evidence. The fact that promiscuous men are celebrated while promiscuous women are denigrated is clear evidence. The abominable treatment by society of sex workers around the world is clear evidence. And yes, it’s incredibly obvious that most, if not all, of the world, is profoundly misogynistic. That you are so damn ignorant that you’re unable to see something so fucking obvious just demonstrates that you’re part of the problem. Yes, ignorance is a big part of the problem - not just widespread abuse and harassment. We’ll never fix it unless the vast majority agree that this is clearly a big problem. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/249 "2020-03-23T10:55:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The fact that many politicians have no fear of nominating or voting to confirm a credibly accused rapist to SCOTUS is clear evidence. Sorry, credibly accused attempted rapist. Just for the nitpickers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022.md?page=12)