# Monica Lewinski, slut or victim ? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022 "2020-03-06T17:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/41 "2020-03-06T23:30:33Z")
At 25yo, shouldn’t one be mature enough to not have sex at work? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/42 "2020-03-06T23:38:11Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > At 25yo, shouldn’t one be mature enough to not have sex at work? The Missus and I work in the same office. We’ve discussed the logistics. But that doesn’t mean you’re wrong. 😃 > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I say “female human” for a reason–if I had said “girl”, there would be people calling out that she isn’t a “girl”, she is a woman. Why do you keep assuming Monica’s gender? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/43 "2020-03-06T23:45:03Z")
Oh shut the fuck up ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/44 "2020-03-06T23:52:59Z")
“She was 25. 25 year olds often are naive.” This proves to me that many of us still regard women as more childlike than men. Never have I heard of a grown man referred to as naive because of an ill advised sexual encounter. By the way, if Bill was a woman, he would have been referred to as a “cougar”. That word brings up images of a middle aged attractive woman drawing admiration for her ability to maintain a sexual relationship with a younger man. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/45 "2020-03-07T00:20:59Z")
According to Bill she was more like anxiety medication. You can’t make this shit up any more. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/46 "2020-03-07T00:22:48Z")
FWIW, she was 22 at the time (as I said) not 25. [Born 1973, affair started in 1995](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Lewinsky). ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/47 "2020-03-07T00:25:42Z")
Bill was a slut Monica was a bit of a dumbass Linda Tripp was a bit of an asshole The American press and much of the general public were giant sucking assholes of black hole proportions Have I missed anyone? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/48 "2020-03-07T01:03:08Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Bill was a slut > Monica was a bit of a dumbass > Linda Tripp was a bit of an asshole > The American press and much of the general public were giant sucking assholes of black hole proportions > > Have I missed anyone? Starr was the biggest asshole. He did not actually have to go after this thing – in fact, as Baylor president, he demonstrated a history of looking the other way, in some cases where real nonconsensual activities were occurring. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/49 "2020-03-07T01:14:00Z")
Good call! ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/50 "2020-03-07T02:06:28Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > “She was 25. 25 year olds often are naive.” > > This proves to me that many of us still regard women as more childlike than men. Never have I heard of a grown man referred to as naive because of an ill advised sexual encounter. Haven’t you? I have. Both men and women are often still naive at 25; about sex as about other things. Some people still are at 75, of course; though fewer. ETA: > [@Grrr](#): > > At 25yo, shouldn’t one be mature enough to not have sex at work? One should, yes. Not everybody is. Some people apparently aren’t mature enough at 50 or older. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/51 "2020-03-07T02:18:29Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > According to Bill she was more like anxiety medication. > > You can’t make this shit up any more. I complained earlier that Monica Lewinsky should stay out of the public eye and never mention this. There are other things she could be doing with her life. Bill Clinton also needs a shiny new gag. (Almost) nobody asks him about Lewinsky anymore, and he should have memorized a really boring anecdote to trot out anytime someone asks. (Mitt Romney did this with the Mormon thing.) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/52 "2020-03-07T03:13:04Z")
Have not read this thread. How about “Monica Lewinski, person” sheessss. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/53 "2020-03-07T03:20:16Z")
Where was everybody when Nancy kept inviting Frank up for some sweet, sweet schtupping? I guess when Republiopaths do it, no one ever complains. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/54 "2020-03-07T03:59:33Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Where was everybody when Nancy kept inviting Frank up for some sweet, sweet schtupping? I guess when Republiopaths do it, no one ever complains. What? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/55 "2020-03-07T04:01:41Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > As for Bill Clinton, his victim is his wife, and every indication over the years would suggest that he did make things right with Hillary. Wait. What??? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/56 "2020-03-07T04:02:28Z")
Fuck the republican trash who dragged this sordid little affair out of the private and into the public. Worthless hypocritical scum, the lot of them. Bill and Monica were equally responsible. Duh. That’s what it means to be adults. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/57 "2020-03-07T05:53:25Z")
From the time this scandal was all in the news up to and including today, I don’t think _anybody_ in the media has reported certain facts correctly, and it shows in this thread. First, it’s not very clear that Clinton was ever Lewinsky’s boss, at least not directly. Lewinsky started as an intern in the office of Chief Of Staff Leon Panetta. Does that make Clinton her boss? She began her affair with Clinton while working there. She then moved to the Office of Legislative Affairs, where her chores included hand-carrying documents to Clinton in the Oval Office. Was Clinton her boss there? She was later transferred to an office in the Pentagon. Was Clinton her boss there? (IIRC, she continued having access to the White House and continued visiting Clinton in the Oval Office while there.) It was during that time that she began spilling the beans to Linda Tripp, another employee at the Pentagon. IIRC, it was mentioned in the press that she had no real business visiting the White House but was allowed to do so anyway – the implication being at the time, that Clinton had authorized this. I felt at the time and ever since, that both of them were Guilty of First Degree Stupidity. Lewinsky mainly for having this affair and telling Tripp all about it extensively (she might as well have shouted it from the rooftops), and Clinton for engaging with her in this affair. Cite: [A Chronology: Key Moments In The Clinton-Lewinsky Saga](https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/resources/lewinsky/timeline/) by CNN. Another chronology: [Clinton impeachment timeline](https://www.theguardian.com/world/1998/nov/18/clinton.usa) at The Guardian. You can google up a whole bunch of chronologies. They all differ in which details they choose to include or emphasize. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/58 "2020-03-07T08:02:01Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > First, it’s not very clear that Clinton was ever Lewinsky’s boss, at least not directly. Lewinsky started as an intern in the office of Chief Of Staff Leon Panetta. Does that make Clinton her boss? She began her affair with Clinton while working there. > > She then moved to the Office of Legislative Affairs, where her chores included hand-carrying documents to Clinton in the Oval Office. Was Clinton her boss there? > > She was later transferred to an office in the Pentagon. Was Clinton her boss there? This is what you’re going to hang your hat on? Really? That because Clinton wasn’t the person directly above her in the organizational flowchart, he wasn’t her boss for the purpose of discussing power imbalances and inappropriate behavior in the workplace? Why don’t you get a job in the executive branch that sends you into the White House and the Oval Office on a regular basis, and then tell me if it feels like the President of the United States is your boss. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/59 "2020-03-07T10:00:00Z")
Slut OR victim? Why does it have to be either/or? Unless, of course, you feel that a sexually active woman doesn’t deserve respect, fairness, or decency. Yes, Monica Lewinsky was very much the victim of what passes for journalism in this day and age. Why does this sordid affair keep being dragged back into public view again and again and again? And yes, I view Bill as a slut, too. A worse one with his long history of fucking women other than his wife. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/60 "2020-03-07T11:20:12Z")
“Monica Lewinski, slut or victim ?” ??? Setting aside that she is victimized by you misspelling her name — 😃 — why are these our only choices? Will your next thread be “The sky, is it black or white?” One datapoint in the debate, though I won’t Google for proof, is that Ms. Lewinsky had a lucrative gig modeling for a soft-porn magazine. Anyway, for anyone looking to name the villain in the Case of the Semen-Stained Dress, neither Clinton nor Lewinsky is the correct answer. The correct answer is Judge Kenneth Starr and his Gang of Kleptocratic Hypocrites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022.md?page=4)