# Monica Lewinski, slut or victim ? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022 "2020-03-06T17:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/61 "2020-03-07T19:50:34Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > First, it’s not very clear that Clinton was ever Lewinsky’s boss, at least not directly. Lewinsky started as an intern in the office of Chief Of Staff Leon Panetta. Does that make Clinton her boss? She began her affair with Clinton while working there. > > She then moved to the Office of Legislative Affairs, where her chores included hand-carrying documents to Clinton in the Oval Office. Was Clinton her boss there? > > She was later transferred to an office in the Pentagon. Was Clinton her boss there? Clinton has to take ultimate responsibility. That’s why he had a sign on his desk that said _THE FUCK STOPS HERE_. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/62 "2020-03-07T20:41:38Z")
Bill may have messed around, and that’s very wrong. But either he made it up with his wife or Hillary accepted it. I don’t truly know what their behind doors relationship is like, but one thing I saw is an indicator to me. I saw a video clip in which the two were together, sitting side by side, getting ready for and interview. Big light fixtures were being set up all around them. A tall light on a pole shorted out, causing sparks, a big flash, and the fixture came down. Bill’s automatic reaction was to throw himself over his wife, to protect her. This could not have been a setup, it was film of an accident. There must be something good between Hillary and Bill, seeing something like that. BTW, Hillary’s reaction was to crouch down and squeal _“Jesus, Mary and Joseph!”_ ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/63 "2020-03-07T22:04:19Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Bill may have messed around, and that’s very wrong. But either he made it up with his wife or Hillary accepted it. I don’t truly know what their behind doors relationship is like, but one thing I saw is an indicator to me. > > I saw a video clip in which the two were together, sitting side by side, getting ready for and interview. Big light fixtures were being set up all around them. A tall light on a pole shorted out, causing sparks, a big flash, and the fixture came down. Bill’s automatic reaction was to throw himself over his wife, to protect her. This could not have been a setup, it was film of an accident. There must be something good between Hillary and Bill, seeing something like that. BTW, Hillary’s reaction was to crouch down and squeal _“Jesus, Mary and Joseph!”_ [Let’s go to the tape.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GQGHBJjdrE) Just as telling as Bill’s heroics is the shot at the end of Hillary clinging to him as he comforted her. I’ve never had a man do that for me, except my brother when our mother died. That said, this interview was in 1992. According to the _Hillary_ doc on HBO, she found out the truth about the Lewinsky affair just before we did, well after multiple public and private denials. That would by god be that for me. BTW, I saw the interview as originally aired. Kroft asked them about “this arrangement you have.” I’d love to know if that was before or after the lights came down. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/64 "2020-03-08T10:51:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > That because Clinton wasn’t the person directly above her in the organizational flowchart, he wasn’t her boss for the purpose of discussing power imbalances and inappropriate behavior in the workplace? “power imbalance” is critical only if the subordinate _fears_ her boss, and therefor unwillingly submits to his sexual advances in order to save her job. There’s no option to refuse.(Like the classic Hollywood “casting couch”, or a waitress at Hooters with a creepy boss). The only power imbalance Monica was concerned about was exactly the opposite: she willingly took the initiative, because he was so powerful. All because she wanted to boast to her girlfriends that she had done it with the top guy. She saw herself as the winner, and proudly told Linda all about it, and kept the dress with the famous stain as a memento. That’s not a power imbalance…that’s a stupid decision for which Monica owns all the responsibility.She could have refused at any time she wanted. And Clinton was even stupider for allowing it to happen. He could --and should–have refused to take part. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/65 "2020-03-08T11:41:48Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > I complained earlier that Monica Lewinsky should stay out of the public eye and never mention this. There are other things she could be doing with her life. Trying to run away from your past helps no one, including yourself. Embracing your past and using it to accomplish good things for yourself (getting money) and for others (her anti-cyberbulling campaign) is a far better use of her time. Squandering her fame to be some general schlubb with no money and no way to help others is patently stupid. As for the thread topic: victim from others. I do agree that the person having an affair with the married person is still doing something wrong, but it’s at the level of a personal wrong, and nothing the world should care about. No one cared that Kennedy slept with so many women, and no one things poorly of, say, Marilyn Monroe for doing it. She did something that was a personal wrong to Hillary, assuming that it wasn’t an open marriage. But everything else was bad stuff that happened to her, from untrustworthy people who apparently wanted to take down the President (including Linda Tripp, as why else blab about it?) to the way the public treated her. Possibly she was even victimized by the patriarchy, if she actually was doing it to get ahead, as that is what teaches women that their value is higher having sex than actually doing work. But it’s also just possible she, like many women, is turned on by power, and knew that Bill would likely not turn her down. And, yes, sluts are not a thing, making the OP the easiest answer ever. She’s at least partly a victim, but in no way a fictitious concept created to attack women who like sex. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/66 "2020-03-08T12:21:58Z")
The question of whether Lewinsky bears any responsibility is _completely irrelevant_. Bill Clinton was the President, he’s the one whose behavior we care about, and he’s the one who went to trial. And regardless of how Lewinsky behaved or what choices she made, Clinton’s behavior was inappropriate, because it is always inappropriate for a boss to have sex with a subordinate. The fact that Lewinsky consented is, I suppose, relevant in that it means that it was a lesser offense rather than rape, but I don’t think anyone, even the Republicans who were condemning him, ever claimed that it was rape (at least, not with Lewinsky). ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/67 "2020-03-08T12:45:23Z")
There is something so disgustingly prurient about the OP bringing up an event over two decades old, in a manner so calculated to be demeaning no matter how it is answered, that it can only be the creation of one of those republicans who are still obsessed with Bill Clinton for some unimaginable reason. I could never understand why some dude cheating on his wife in what was a rather lamentable but very typical way, not committing any crimes or causing any damage except to his marriage vows, gets so many people so sweaty and bothered. Do you have a life? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/68 "2020-03-08T13:36:01Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > one of those republicans who are still obsessed with Bill Clinton for some unimaginable reason. Yes this subject and thread title is very much on the nose. They are obsessed with Clinton because he was the last white president with any gravitas, but he was a democrat, so it hurts. They have to keep kicking. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/69 "2020-03-08T16:45:12Z")
“White”? That [may be debatable](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1998/10/05/comment-6543). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/70 "2020-03-08T17:50:14Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > There is something so disgustingly prurient about the OP bringing up an event over two decades old, in a manner so calculated to be demeaning no matter how it is answered, that it can only be the creation of one of those republicans who are still obsessed with Bill Clinton for some unimaginable reason. I could never understand why some dude cheating on his wife in what was a rather lamentable but very typical way, not committing any crimes or causing any damage except to his marriage vows, gets so many people so sweaty and bothered. Do you have a life? This comment is so off the mark I’m beginning to understand how some people are equipped to actually buy the bullshit that Donald Trump tries to sell. If you fucking read the op with comprehension you might realize that I responded to a **recent** tweet by Monica where she responds to a tweet criticizing Clinton for not making things right with her. Well how about she makes things right with Hillary!! Hillary is the victim here. I grew up learning that we are all responsible for our own actions and that men and women are equal. None of these values appear behind many of the comments I’m reading here. I am not republican BTW I’m a 69 year old Canadian who is a huge fan of Hillary and I will go to the grave thinking America and the world missed a major opportunity to establish an intelligent and empathetic leader to build on the Obama legacy. Its so fucked up now. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/71 "2020-03-08T19:15:33Z")
Your self-righteousness might play better if you hadn’t started off by calling a woman a “slut” right in the thread title. Given the well-poisoning, you might just want to ask a moderator to close the thread. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/72 "2020-03-08T20:00:28Z")
I am still a bit baffled at what she has to do with Seattle’s South Lake Union Trolley. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/73 "2020-03-08T20:11:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Your self-righteousness might play better if you hadn’t started off by calling a woman a “slut” right in the thread title. Given the well-poisoning, you might just want to ask a moderator to close the thread. And you can get off your high horse ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/74 "2020-03-08T20:20:31Z")
I always felt sympathy for Lewinsky. This wasn’t some young girl having an ill-advised affair with her boss. This was some young girl who found herself in a position to fool around with a rock star, her celebrity crush - who also happened to be the most powerful man in the world. This was not your typical fling. I’m sure it was really overwhelming on many levels. I don’t know what I would’ve done in that situation, especially at her age (although I suspect I might’ve done what she did) But it’s a situation most of us will never find ourselves in. I’ve known couples that had inside jokes about “free passes” … “Honey, you can sleep with Brad Pitt if the opportunity comes up as long as I can sleep with Julia Roberts if she asks”. And this is a joke because everyone knows that opportunity will never present itself. But what if it did? What would you do? Do you really know? That’s why I’m not judging her, ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/75 "2020-03-08T21:19:18Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Why do you keep assuming Monica’s gender? Why do people think this tired gag is funny? ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/76 "2020-03-08T21:27:26Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Fuck the republican trash who dragged this sordid little affair out of the private and into the public. Worthless hypocritical scum, the lot of them. > > Bill and Monica were equally responsible. Duh. That’s what it means to be adults. Linda Tripp (the whistleblower) was a Republican? She’s the one who dragged out into the open. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/77 "2020-03-08T21:28:21Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I always felt sympathy for Lewinsky. This wasn’t some young girl having an ill-advised affair with her boss. This was some young girl who found herself in a position to fool around with a rock star, her celebrity crush - who also happened to be the most powerful man in the world. This was not your typical fling. I’m sure it was really overwhelming on many levels. Fine, except she was 22 years old at the start. That’s hardly a “young girl”. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/78 "2020-03-08T21:30:53Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Where was everybody when Nancy kept inviting Frank up for some sweet, sweet schtupping? I guess when Republiopaths do it, no one ever complains. Frank Sinatra and Nancy Reagan? I don’t recall there ever being a thread here at SDMB that talked about it. I mean, if you are complaining no one here bitched about it 40+ years ago, show us the thread. Oh–“Republiopaths” ? That’s so clever–said no one. What are you? Five years old? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/79 "2020-03-08T22:39:24Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > Why do people think this tired gag is funny? Because he’s not very smart. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/80 "2020-03-09T01:25:05Z")
When Republicans victim shame she’s a victim. When Republicans bring her up to portray Bill Clinton as a predator, she’s a slut. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022.md?page=5)