# Monica Lewinski, slut or victim ? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022 "2020-03-06T17:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/141 "2020-03-10T15:15:44Z")
Several things - I’m a little bit younger than she is. I know that influences my view. First: She’s back in the news because the Clintons have a biography/movie/special coming out on hulu soon. Someone else is pulling the story into the spotlight & she’s part of the story. She’s not the one who drove the conversation this time. Second: From what everyone seems to have said, it was as consensual. I remember thinking that she was old enough to know what she was doing and making her own decisions (no doubt because I thought I was old enough to know what I was doing and make my own decisions). It also made what happened between her and the president very different than what had happened between Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas (a supervisor who had sexually harassed his employee - not just had an improper sexual relationship with one and the area where there was a lot more focus was in the 90s.) Third: So what that she said she was interested in George Stephanopolous? “Everyone” was. He was the “hot young single guy” in the administration. And the press treated him like a rock star. (According to multiple rumors, Sam Seaborn on West Wing (played by Rob Lowe, for goodness sakes) was modeled after him). He was even a throwaway line on “Friends.” I imagine a great many politically aware people who were interested in men had given a thought his way. Saying that she was “after him” is right there with the millions of people who go to rock concerts and hoping to catch the lead guitarist’s eye. Fourth: When this blew up in everyone’s faces, the Clinton team made the decision to preserve the presidency at all costs. It’s an understandable decision - a successful impeachment with a Republican congress (especially _that_ Republican congress) would have been disastrous to both his successor and to the party as a whole. But there were huge costs to the Gore campaign, to Hillary Clinton’s reputation, and to Lewinsky. Part of their strategy was to completely distance themselves from her and leave her to fend entirely for herself. But, this was the surge of the 24-hour news cycle (both MSNBC & Fox News were just starting) and when internet news was starting to seep into people’s homes. The Clinton team, with all of their knowledge and expertise and contacts and press savvy and the power of the podium could barely manage the changing media landscape and was hardly able to influence the story; a 20-something woman with next-to-no resources didn’t have a shot. She’s owed an apology for being hung out to dry. According to both of them he’s never done that personally - just as part of a “public apology.” ---
**Author:** ![AlTraina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/altraina/32/50_2.png) [@AlTraina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlTraina)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/142 "2020-03-10T16:04:36Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The Whitewater investigation (by the NY Times) began during Clinton’s 1992 campaign; Ken Starr was appointed in 1994. 1992 was 28 years ago. So - 18 years old at the very beginning of it. I wasn’t asking you, douche bag. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/143 "2020-03-10T16:19:25Z")
> [@AlTraina](#): > > I wasn’t asking you, douche bag. If you want to have a private conversation with someone here, send them a private message, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/144 "2020-03-10T17:05:08Z")
> [@AlTraina](#): > > I wasn’t asking you, douche bag. Well, that’s **me** told. But at least I can do math. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/145 "2020-03-10T17:24:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “Lewinsky stated that she had nine sexual encounters in the Oval Office with President Bill Clinton between November 1995 and March 1997. According to her testimony, these involved fellatio and other sexual acts, but not sexual intercourse.” > > So she was between 21 and 23. Fresh out of college. > > She was 18 when Clinton took office. > > If your 50 year old boss (who is also the most powerful man in the world) has an affair with the fresh out of college intern, do we call the intern a slut? Or do we scold the man for abusing his position? There is a Chappelle routine lurking in that information. “Imagine being sooooo famous that somebody else could get famous just by sucking your dick. That’s some kind of famous.” Also, fuck all the old moralists in here. Also also, fuck Shodan. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/146 "2020-03-10T17:30:16Z")
duplicate ---
**Author:** ![AlTraina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/altraina/32/50_2.png) [@AlTraina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlTraina)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/147 "2020-03-10T17:53:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But at least I can do math. That might be true, but you haven’t demonstrated it yet in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/148 "2020-03-10T17:56:35Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > I’m now 46 years old, and I’ve managed several young, attractive female interns. One hit on me, taking my hand and placing it on her breast. I pulled my hand away and said, “Maybe that’s not such a good idea.” I was totally attracted to her, and I felt a weird thrill when she placed my hand on her breast. But I had power over her, so it was a nonstarter. > > You know what? It was pretty easy to say no. It’s even easier when there’s a third party in the room. Wouldn’t Secret Service been in there when she went in? > [@amarinth](#): > > Fourth: When this blew up in everyone’s faces, the Clinton team made the decision to preserve the presidency at all costs. It’s an understandable decision - a successful impeachment with a Republican congress (especially _that_ Republican congress) would have been disastrous to both his successor and to the party as a whole. But there were huge costs to the Gore campaign, to Hillary Clinton’s reputation, and to Lewinsky. Part of their strategy was to completely distance themselves from her and leave her to fend entirely for herself. > But, this was the surge of the 24-hour news cycle (both MSNBC & Fox News were just starting) and when internet news was starting to seep into people’s homes. The Clinton team, with all of their knowledge and expertise and contacts and press savvy and the power of the podium could barely manage the changing media landscape and was hardly able to influence the story; a 20-something woman with next-to-no resources didn’t have a shot. > She’s owed an apology for being hung out to dry. According to both of them he’s never done that personally - just as part of a “public apology.” So when a criminal gets busted & turns state’s evidence on his co-conspirators, he should apologize to them? Because that’s what I hear you saying. She was not only a willing participant, but if the above statements are true it sounds like she initiated the whole thing. On top of that, she kept evidence & told others, which is how it became a public scandal in the first place. Not exactly a figure deserving lots of sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/149 "2020-03-10T19:12:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Funny, you’re such a big fan of Hillary, but you haven’t really said much about him. Why is it always The Other Woman who takes the brunt? You know what they say about it taking two to tango. 1. Bill never tried to blame others for his indiscretion, the indiscretion which I agree was really stupid and bad. When Monica confirmed Bill never made things right with her suggesting she was his victim I nearly threw up. You know a lot of men in Bill’s shoes would have blamed her for seducing him, but Bill owned up to his mistake. Hillary took big brunt. She was also blamed for standing by her husband and her vows and not standing up for Monica. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/150 "2020-03-10T19:25:03Z")
I’m a hell of a lot more sympathetic to Ms. Lewinsky than I am to Starr, the news media, the right-wing talking heads, and even Pres. Clinton. The informal punishment of Ms. Lewinsky far outweighs what anyone else received, and in the case of the news media and right-wing talking heads, they profited greatly from Ms. Lewinsky’s bad choice to pursue a married, powerful man. The amount of blame being given her sounds to me like a lot of MRA-lite (or maybe just plain MRA) bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/151 "2020-03-10T19:25:51Z")
> [@AlTraina](#): > > I wasn’t asking you, douche bag. You may not like Gyrate’s response, but it’s the right answer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/152 "2020-03-10T19:43:24Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > No, it’s because you’re a fucking moron. > > Indecent exposure has to be in public, idiot. The fucking oval office isn’t fucking public you fucking imbecile. > > Sexual assault has to be unwanted contact. Since Clinton willingly conducted an affair with Lewinsky, it wasn’t unwanted, you worthless ignoramus. > > Do you want me to post a link to the relevant DC law, 22-1312 Lewd, indecent or obscene acts? Fuck off. You need to get a life. ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/153 "2020-03-10T19:51:09Z")
I don’t fault Monica. She was a teenager, and was in love. A President should know better. “Anxieties” (keep digging) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/154 "2020-03-10T19:54:37Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > You need to get a life. I’m not the moron who thinks the twenty nothing intern giving blowjobs to the President is guilty of a felony. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/155 "2020-03-10T20:53:30Z")
I didn’t say that trump. Learn to read By thew way, that is a pejorative word ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/156 "2020-03-10T21:00:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, because no such word needs to exist at all. We don’t need a derogatory word for people who enjoy sex or have had multiple partners. We don’t even need it for someone who dresses too sexually, either. > > The entire concept is part of a puritanical mindset about sex–where sex is a bad thing. The solution is not applying it to men as well, but getting rid of the concept altogether. > > If people have issues with what Monica Lewisnky did, then there are plenty of terms that fit. But a term about her being “too much” into sex is not appropriate. Enjoying sex and having a lot of it is no crime On the other hand - deliberately pursuing a married person, giving head in the office and keeping a semen stained souvenair and “bragging” about “big game hunting” - yeah, I’d call that deserving of a derogatory term. Just as I think Clinton deserves an equally derogatory term for cheating on his wife and taking the opportunity presented by a naive young intern. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/157 "2020-03-10T22:05:54Z")
So I’ll say it. Clinton was a prick ---
**Author:** ![AlTraina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/altraina/32/50_2.png) [@AlTraina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlTraina)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/158 "2020-03-10T23:26:59Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > You may not like Gyrate’s response, but it’s the right answer. You need someone else to speak for you, you retarded cunt? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/159 "2020-03-10T23:51:50Z")
How long ago was this? After a long ass “investigation” by Starr, the Republican witch finder general, THIS was ALL the asshole could come up with - a blowjob. It was as much a waste as the never ending Benghazi investigations, which turned up … wait for it … nothing. So how long ago was it again? Nobody gives a fuck anymore. We have bigger problems than a fucking blowjob. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022/160 "2020-03-10T23:55:58Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > So when a criminal gets busted & turns state’s evidence on his co-conspirators, he should apologize to them? Because that’s what I hear you saying. Yes. If I’m the getaway driver and I get 20-to-life, while one of the guys who went in the bank, kneecapped the guards, and pushed a little old lady onto the ground where she broke her hip gets a mere 6-months probation because she turned me in, I want her to say “sorry about that.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinski-slut-or-victim/849022.md?page=9)