# Monica Lewinsky...The Price Of Shame **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991 "2017-07-24T00:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/21 "2017-07-25T01:39:00Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > As for what she “deserved”, plenty of other people have done basically the same thing as she did and not received remotely the same sort of public shaming. She made a particularly foolish choice of who to get involved with – but do people who make foolish choices _deserve_ more suffering than anyone else? Because she won’t let it die. She’s a talentless bimbo who’s _only_ talent seems to be exploiting what happened and then whining that people keep bringing it up. > [@](#): > > Also, Bill’s part in things was clearly worse (he was breaking his vows to his wife, and abusing his position of power over a subordinate) and I believe he suffered less for it. I’ll agree with you there. But for this discussion, Bill isn’t running to the media every year or two to whine about the situation and then complaining that the media won’t let the issue drop. As far as I’m concerned she has two options: A) Cash in on her infamy, enjoy the ride and go with it or B) Go the fuck _away_ and don’t keep writing tell-all articles/giving whiney interviews about how hard it is to have all this publicity all the time when she writes these sleezy articles/interviews. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/22 "2017-07-25T01:55:29Z")
That’s an unnecessarily demeaning position to take about her. She has to now live with a certain set of limitations that she can’t change. By speaking on this subject, she is using her resources as best she can. Sure, that might be to her advantage, but that’s what we all do. The subject she is addressing is a important one for the public at large to consider and she is in an almost unique position to address it. Talentless? She’s a reasonably educated person of above average intelligence. That’s clear. Bimbo? She’s really no more of a bimbo than the average person. She had a very unwise and unfortunate sexual relationship and she unwisely confused in the wrong person. Of all the people who were involved in that scandal, she was the one whose future prospects were severely curtailed. How many of us have made reasonably similar bad choices? Very few of us have suffered the drastic consequences she did. There’s no good reason to despise her or call her a bimbo. There’s no good reason to castigate her for trying to turn her experience into something as positive as she can. It’s nothing more than spite to denounce her as someone who has no value and should just keep her mouth shut. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/23 "2017-07-25T02:18:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The thing is that she deserved the scorn she got twenty years ago for the mistakes she made. She should learn from her mistakes and move on. No, she didn’t. She had an affair. Many, many people have an affair. They do not get hated as much as she was. They don’t get publicly shamed. And they don’t get harassed online, as she did. It’s also not our right to care about it, anyways. The only people she wronged were the people in the marriage. If Hillary has chosen to stay with Bill, then that’s it. They’ve resolved it. If the Clintons are okay with it now, who are we to continue judging her? I for one definitely applaud her for not allowing herself to be bullied out of the limelight, and using her unwanted fame as a tool to attack a real problem that people face. As long as she’s doing it for a good cause, those telling her to shut-up are wrong. And leave the “bimbo” crap in the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/24 "2017-07-25T02:42:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s an unnecessarily demeaning position to take about her. > > She has to now live with a certain set of limitations that she can’t change. By speaking on this subject, she is using her resources as best she can. Sure, that might be to her advantage, but that’s what we all do. > > The subject she is addressing is a important one for the public at large to consider and she is in an almost unique position to address it. I disagree. Internet bullying is a real thing and something that we should all work on to try to minimize. Megan Meier is the textbook – and heartbreaking – example of what Internet bullying is. Monica, however is as much a victim of Internet bullying as Milo Yannopolis is/was. You don’t get to troll the media and then claim bullying when people respond to your trolling. > [@](#): > > There’s no good reason to despise her or call her a bimbo Sure there is. She slept with a married man without the consent of his partner. QED: a bimbo by definition. Note that Bill is also a bimbo (or ‘himbo’ if you prefer – and I do )by exactly the same definition. There’s nothing wrong with polyamory as long as all parties consent. Hillary didn’t–she’s the _only_ victim here. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/25 "2017-07-25T03:35:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s an unnecessarily demeaning position to take about her. > > She has to now live with a certain set of limitations that she can’t change. By speaking on this subject, she is using her resources as best she can. Sure, that might be to her advantage, but that’s what we all do. > > The subject she is addressing is a important one for the public at large to consider and she is in an almost unique position to address it. > > Talentless? She’s a reasonably educated person of above average intelligence. That’s clear. > > Bimbo? She’s really no more of a bimbo than the average person. She had a very unwise and unfortunate sexual relationship and she unwisely confused in the wrong person. > > Of all the people who were involved in that scandal, she was the one whose future prospects were severely curtailed. How many of us have made reasonably similar bad choices? Very few of us have suffered the drastic consequences she did. > > There’s no good reason to despise her or call her a bimbo. There’s no good reason to castigate her for trying to turn her experience into something as positive as she can. > > It’s nothing more than spite to denounce her as someone who has no value and should just keep her mouth shut. > [@BigT](#): > > No, she didn’t. She had an affair. Many, many people have an affair. They do not get hated as much as she was. They don’t get publicly shamed. And they don’t get harassed online, as she did. > > It’s also not our right to care about it, anyways. The only people she wronged were the people in the marriage. If Hillary has chosen to stay with Bill, then that’s it. They’ve resolved it. > > If the Clintons are okay with it now, who are we to continue judging her? > > I for one definitely applaud her for not allowing herself to be bullied out of the limelight, and using her unwanted fame as a tool to attack a real problem that people face. > > As long as she’s doing it for a good cause, those telling her to shut-up are wrong. > > And leave the “bimbo” crap in the 20th century. I strongly agree with these two posts. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/26 "2017-07-25T14:59:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, she didn’t. She had an affair. Many, many people have an affair. They do not get hated as much as she was. They don’t get publicly shamed. And they don’t get harassed online, as she did. > > It’s also not our right to care about it, anyways. The only people she wronged were the people in the marriage. If Hillary has chosen to stay with Bill, then that’s it. They’ve resolved it. > > If the Clintons are okay with it now, who are we to continue judging her? > > I for one definitely applaud her for not allowing herself to be bullied out of the limelight, and using her unwanted fame as a tool to attack a real problem that people face. > > As long as she’s doing it for a good cause, those telling her to shut-up are wrong. > > And leave the “bimbo” crap in the 20th century. You seem to be saying two things: 1. She was young. She made a rather common indiscretion. The parties involved have forgiven and forgetten and moved on, so why can’t we? 2. She, however, can continue to bring it up whenever the checking account gets a little light. Go onto whatever media will have her and keep it in the limelight. IOW, we should forget, but she gets to keep talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/27 "2017-07-25T15:46:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s an unnecessarily demeaning position to take about her. > > She has to now live with a certain set of limitations that she can’t change. . . Of all the people who were involved in that scandal, she was the one whose future prospects were severely curtailed. I truly don’t know the answer here, but what are the limitations and future prospects that have been severely curtailed? Was she going to run for office and she can no longer do that (or do it effectively)? I think she has a clothing and apparel line that she only has presumable because of her history. It does seem to me that there is a bit of a “have your cake and eat it too” desire here. I’m unclear why she couldn’t have a successful life in California as an accountant, or business woman or real estate broker or what have you. What prospects are severely curtailed? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/28 "2017-07-25T15:51:48Z")
Why the hell is this in **Cafe Society**? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/29 "2017-07-25T16:41:58Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Why the hell is this in **Cafe Society**? To piss you off. Is it working? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/30 "2017-07-25T17:55:37Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > Seriously? Seems a pretty clear cut case to me… > > [https://cyberbullying.ua.edu/index.php/case-study-tyler-clementi/](https://cyberbullying.ua.edu/index.php/case-study-tyler-clementi/) Clementi had his privacy violated by a roommate. He was never bullied. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/31 "2017-07-25T18:01:02Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I truly don’t know the answer here, but what are the limitations and future prospects that have been severely curtailed? Was she going to run for office and she can no longer do that (or do it effectively)? > > I think she has a clothing and apparel line that she only has presumable because of her history. > > It does seem to me that there is a bit of a “have your cake and eat it too” desire here. > > I’m unclear why she couldn’t have a successful life in California as an accountant, or business woman or real estate broker or what have you. What prospects are severely curtailed? You can’t imagine why being the other woman in perhaps the country’s most notorious sex scandal ever might limit certain professional opportunities? Really? And perhaps she tries opportunities like having a fashion line because it’s a way to make money. How is that having your cake? Presumably the people who call her a bimbo aren’t among her best customers. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/32 "2017-07-25T19:17:28Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You can’t imagine why being the other woman in perhaps the country’s most notorious sex scandal ever might limit certain professional opportunities? Really? As they should be. She was victimized in the scandal, but not by the shaming, she has to deal with the consequences of her actions. If someone were pursuing her after it was all over it would be a different story, but she’s the one keeping it from being over. She’s not some kind of hero, nobody secretly recorded her, this story is only known because she couldn’t keep her mouth shut after she had it open in the oval office. If she’s using the name she’s known by professionally that’s just stupid, nobody is obligated to forget about her, and they certainly won’t if she keeps herself in the public eye. Them’s the breaks, life ain’t fair, and if you mess around with public figures you should expect that you might have to deal with that for the rest of your life. There’s no need for her name to come in public now except as history, nobody should be mentioning it otherwise but she can’t be complaining when she keeps putting her name out there. That’s an invitation to shamers and bullies. If she was going about her life privately under a different name and never brought the subject up then she’d have something to complain about. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/33 "2017-07-25T20:44:14Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > There’s no good reason to despise her or call her a bimbo > > Sure there is. She slept with a married man without the consent of his partner. QED: a bimbo by definition. As far as I know, she never made any vows this would be in violation of. I don’t know if that qualifies a person as a bimbo or not (it’s not a word that I define at all, it not being a word I tend to use), but I would not despise someone for not respecting other folk’s silly-ass vows and promises. Not her responsibility. I might have some caustic things to say about her judgment. > [@](#): > > Note that Bill is also a bimbo (or ‘himbo’ if you prefer – and I do )by exactly the same definition. There’s nothing wrong with polyamory as long as all parties consent. Hillary didn’t–she’s the only victim here. Don’t agree. Structurally and situationally, Lewinsky was in a situation where she was at risk of sexual exploitation, which is _why_ we don’t approve of supervisors getting it on with the people they supervise. No (to answer what may be your question) I do not think it likely that she was coerced or pressured, but that’s not really the point. She may have even come gunnin’ for him. But unless we have reason to think she fully comprehended everything she was getting herself into (and I doubt that), it remains his responsibility to remain sexually uninvolved. As for her, willing-and-perhaps-enthusiastic participant or not, I do consider her a victim. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/34 "2017-07-25T21:02:29Z")
The only thing sadder than Monica Lewinsky is people who click on threads about Monica Lewinsky to complain about how sick they are of Monica Lewinsky. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/35 "2017-07-25T21:06:02Z")
Whether or not she was a victim of Bill Clinton is a completely different question of how she was later treated by the press, the public, and individuals who were completely outside her relationship with Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/36 "2017-07-25T21:16:10Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The fame-whore’s at it again? She shows up every two years or so. For someone who’s sole talent is apparently giving blow-jobs and defending the boss who sexually harassed her, she’s surprisingly hard to get rid of like a cockroach. > > [2016](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/16/monica-lewinsky-shame-sticks-like-tar-jon-ronson) > [2014](http://www.vanityfair.com/style/society/2014/06/monica-lewinsky-humiliation-culture) (where she uses Tyler Clementi as a prop again-which is sad. He’s a legit victim. She’s just a publicity-slut.) > [2012](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2012/02/monica-lewinsky-bill-clinton-pbs.html) > > I’d be a lot less contemptuous of her if she actually, y’know, talked about her responsibility in the situation (like whoring her story out every two years or so every time she’s starting to be forgotten) or how women are often victims of unequal workplace power instead of how Bill is just a sweetums and it’s all the meanie bullies who are responsible for her life being fucked up. > > Monica’s just a publicity-hunting, talentless bimbo who’s doing her best to keep herself in the spotlight. Your last link has the following: > [@](#): > > Though she plays a huge role in the story of Bill Clinton’s presidency, Lewinsky herself was not interviewed for the documentary. How, exactly, is Lewinsky whoring herself out when she\* isn’t even in the documentary? \* Slee ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/37 "2017-07-25T21:16:19Z")
“Bill Clinton is a bimbo too, a male bimbo!” is comparable to saying “‘Nigger’ isn’t racist because white people can be niggers too!” It completely ignores the history and general understanding of the term and more important it ignores who gets hurt by the term. Why couldn’t Monica Lewinsky just chosen a different career, like accounting? Well, besides all the other reasons why she might not have gone into a particular profession, what reputable accounting firm will hire a bimbo as a professional? Very few men who have had affairs or made other bad sexual choices run into such consequences, so the whole “himbo” dodge is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/38 "2017-07-25T21:20:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Very few men who have had affairs or made other bad sexual choices run into such consequences, so the whole “himbo” dodge is meaningless. How many men have had affairs with a sitting president? I doubt the number is greater than 20. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/39 "2017-07-25T21:56:47Z")
She admitted she was the pursuer. She bragged on it to her friends. It was only actionable because she kept the dress. It brought down Clinton. Every career choice she made from handbag designer, clothing line, writer, social commentator hinged on using her name. 15 yrs after nobody cared anymore she wrote an article about how it’s ‘time to burn the dress’. Hillary runs, she’s back in front of the cameras! And now she’s in the limelight advocating against bullies, because she’s been bullied? Sorry, I’m not buying the poor me crap at all. I see a someone wanting to be in the limelight. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991/40 "2017-07-25T22:10:39Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Why the hell is this in **Cafe Society**? God only knows. Who the hell does that OP think he is? Jerk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monica-lewinsky-the-price-of-shame/791991.md?page=3)