# Monkey doesn't own copyright to selfies, judge rules **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 7, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412 "2016-01-07T13:43:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/21 "2016-01-09T00:10:03Z")
Quick, someone marry that monkey and claim whatever rights you can in this case. ---
**Author:** ![bb49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@bb49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bb49)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/22 "2016-01-09T00:12:45Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Quick, someone marry that monkey and claim whatever rights you can in this case. Someone from PETA no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/23 "2016-01-09T00:32:11Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Well, their tragedy is that once they finally succeed in producing the complete works of Shakespeare, they \*still \*won’t get any copyright protection because it’s in the public domain. So they should start working on the complete works of J K Rowling? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/24 "2016-01-09T00:34:45Z")
The real question is why would PETA have any interest in the monkey’s copyright were the monkey able to own the copyright? They don’t own the monkey. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/25 "2016-01-09T00:43:21Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The real question is why would PETA have any interest in the monkey’s copyright were the monkey able to own the copyright? They don’t own the monkey. I suspect PETA doesn’t give a crap about the copyright, in and of itself, getting the monkey copyright is a small step. Next it’ll be property rights or suffrage or some such. They simply want laws on the books to help establish precedents. IMO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/26 "2016-01-09T01:25:25Z")
Kerr of PETA states that “This case is also exposing the hypocrisy of those who exploit animals for their own gain.” Which seems to be exactly what PETA is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/27 "2016-01-09T04:05:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Quick, someone marry that monkey and claim whatever rights you can in this case. [PETA already thought of that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwm5UcGJ5wY). ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/28 "2016-01-09T09:53:53Z")
This is what happens when people wanna see macaque. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/29 "2016-01-09T13:23:38Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I can’t see why it wouldn’t be the owner of the camera, who created a form of process art. Many modern artists and composers create works by _setting up a situation_ where the actual physical results are determined by forces of nature or random chance. That, it seems to me, is what happened here. IIRC a key point in this case was that the owner did not set the situation up to cause a photo to be taken; his camera was simply snatched by the monkey. Consequently the owner of the camera can’t claim to have caused the photo to be taken and so arguably can’t claim copyright. This is what left it open to argue the monkey had copyright. ---
**Author:** ![Marine\_One](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marine_one/32/3461_2.png) [@Marine\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marine_One)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/30 "2016-01-09T16:36:50Z")
I hope they don’t punish him for some reason and have to spank him. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/31 "2016-01-09T16:41:10Z")
Naw…he will get the chair…and someone will get to …shock the monkey…cue 80’s music beat…monkey…monkey… ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/32 "2016-01-09T17:00:38Z")
Then they can put up a little statue of him as a memorial…perhaps a _Brass Monkey_? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/33 "2016-01-09T17:06:07Z")
Only in the warmer climes one hopes. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/34 "2016-01-11T15:11:21Z")
Hopefully they make a good decision, this will be a precedent for Taylor vs. Zaius in 3978. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/35 "2016-01-11T16:46:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But what I had in mind was you grabbing my camera without asking. Or maybe you _do_ ask, and I say _no,_ and you grab it anyway and snap a photo. If you’re saying you’d still own the copyright in that scenario, then the law is an ass, I guess. I think that would get into making money off of theft if they tried to sell it. But I still don’t think the camera owner would get the copyright. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/36 "2016-01-12T17:59:34Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > I suspect PETA doesn’t give a crap about the copyright, in and of itself, getting the monkey copyright is a small step. Next it’ll be property rights or suffrage or some such. They simply want laws on the books to help establish precedents. Exactly. PETA wants animals to have more legal rights. So they look for places where they can establish any kind of precedent that grants additional rights to animals. > [@Arrendajo](#): > > Kerr of PETA states that “This case is also exposing the hypocrisy of those who exploit animals for their own gain.” Which seems to be exactly what PETA is doing. I disagree. Sure, PETA is a publicity hound and I question their tactics, but this action is consistent with their attempts to enhance the legal rights of animals. I’m now really curious what would happen in the asking-a-stranger-to-take-your-photo copyright case. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/37 "2016-01-12T19:09:23Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I’m now really curious what would happen in the asking-a-stranger-to-take-your-photo copyright case. When you ask a stranger to take your photo with your camera, the implicit understanding is that it’s your photo. Hence, it’s your copyright. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/38 "2016-01-14T22:18:34Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > When you ask a stranger to take your photo with your camera, the implicit understanding is that it’s your photo. Hence, it’s your copyright. Well, that’s probably how it ought to be. I don’t recall an “implicit understanding” section of the copyright code, though. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412/39 "2016-01-15T00:22:41Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Well, that’s probably how it ought to be. I don’t recall an “implicit understanding” section of the copyright code, though. It doesn’t have to be in the copyright code. The general law of agency and contract could be relevant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-doesnt-own-copyright-to-selfies-judge-rules/742412.md?page=1)