# "monkey f\*\*\*ing a football", origin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746 "2004-12-27T05:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3bc359/32.png) [@gerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gerb)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/1 "2004-12-27T05:41:22Z")
I know what the phrase “monkey fucking a football” means. But where did it come from? Was it first used in a book? Was it G.I. speak? Did it come into vogue because of a film? ---
**Author:** ![Spurious\_George](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Spurious\_George](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spurious_George)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/2 "2004-12-27T05:52:53Z")
You do? Because I’ve never heard it before just now. Someone enlighten me, and use this charming phrase in a sentence and explain some situations to which it might pertain. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/3 "2004-12-27T06:04:42Z")
I’ve usually heard it used to describe somebody doing something in a pathetically incompetent manner. Not even capable enough to really make a mess of things. The first time I heard it, it was simply “He’s like a monkey trying to fuck a football,” used to refer to a marketing manager who’d been frantically struggling for a week to produce a marketing plan for our company, but had only managed to create a two-page PowerPoint presentation that didn’t have any text beyond the company’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/4 "2004-12-27T16:00:02Z")
I first heard it in the very early 80’s as “with all the co-ordination of a Monkey F\*\*king a football.” ---
**Author:** ![mikeargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@mikeargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikeargo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/5 "2004-12-27T16:14:50Z")
> [@The Sonoran Lizard King](#): > > I first heard it in the very early 80’s as “with all the co-ordination of a Monkey F\*\*king a football.” It goes back further than that, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it has military origins. Sparky Lyle, the Yankee pitcher, mentions in his book, _The Bronx Zoo_, that Billy Martin would use the phrase in reference to his inept infielders. ---
**Author:** ![Ezstrete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ea924/32.png) [@Ezstrete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezstrete)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/6 "2004-12-27T16:26:42Z")
> [@mikeargo](#): > > It goes back further than that, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it has military origins. Sparky Lyle, the Yankee pitcher, mentions in his book, _The Bronx Zoo_, that Billy Martin would use the phrase in reference to his inept infielders. it was a common expression in the pre-ww2 Navy and Marine Corps. It generally meant a person whose grace,agility and dexterity matched those of a pregnant cow-----or even a three legged elephant. Used it a lot in my service days. The opposite was to have "more fun than a monkey on a grapevine’------when speaking of the “seagulls” that flocked around every liberty port and station gate. EZ ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/7 "2004-12-27T17:58:29Z")
When I joined the fire service it was already in use. Imagine a few newbies going through a drill and trying to properly connect hoselines to a hydrant. The body contortions and fumbling would cause someone to invoke the monkeys violating a football comment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/8 "2004-12-27T23:24:20Z")
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. used the phrase “like an armadillo trying to fuck a football” in the book… umm… I forget. It’s the one about the genius twins, maybe “Breakfast of Champions?” Vonnegut did a stint in the Navy in the 40’s. Google turns up numerous references to hogs, dogs, and frogs. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/9 "2004-12-27T23:40:30Z")
Used to know a guy who was a sucker for slow-play bets. Used to justify it by saying, “I’d pay [insert amount] to see a monkey fuck a football.” > [@NattoGuy](#): > > Vonnegut did a stint in the Navy in the 40’s. Vonnegut enlisted in the Army during WWII, was captured at the Battle of the Bulge, and was a POW in Dresden when the Allies razed it. ---
**Author:** ![Sharky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sharky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sharky)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/10 "2004-12-28T00:02:33Z")
I’ve heard it used by Harley riders to describe someone riding a “crotch-rocket” style sport bike. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/11 "2004-12-28T00:41:47Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > Vonnegut enlisted in the Army during WWII, was captured at the Battle of the Bulge, and was a POW in Dresden when the Allies razed it. Which, as any Vonnegut fan knows, was the basis for his book Slaughterhouse-Five. (The firebombing of Dresden in particular.) ---
**Author:** ![TheFootball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@TheFootball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFootball)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/12 "2023-06-22T15:49:16Z")
The origin Billy Martin analogy sounds convincing. The meaning was never truer today. Inemptitude is the most dangerous tool our leaders possess today. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkey-f-ing-a-football-origin/281746/13 "2023-06-22T16:14:58Z")
Just as an anecdote, I learned the phrase back in the late 80s as “_a pack of_ monkeys trying to fuck a football.” It just seems all the more chaotic when you think about it that way. I like it. I don’t remember where or how I learned that phrase, but I picked it up at about the same time as another favorite, “As fucked up as a football bat.” There was a brief period in what I believe was 1986-1987 where I tried to work one or both phrases into almost every conversation. I belatedly apologize to all of my friends of that time. edit: I also apologize for bumping the zombie here. I haven’t had enough coffee yet and work’s crazy this morning. It’s like watching a pack of monkeys trying to fuck a football.