# Monkeys, typewriters **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 15, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954 "2012-05-15T02:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/1 "2012-05-15T02:33:50Z")
It’s no use debating about infinities. Given just a couple of million years, with just a handful of monkeys, one of them DID come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/2 "2012-05-15T02:38:05Z")
Awwww. I gave a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters, and all they came up with was Bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/3 "2012-05-15T02:42:51Z")
“We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.” - Robert Wilensky ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/4 "2012-05-15T02:46:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.” - Robert Wilensky They also came up with the typewriter. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/5 "2012-05-15T02:48:37Z")
[Been a Long, Long Time . . .](http://ansible.co.uk/sfx/sfx092.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/6 "2012-05-15T02:50:17Z")
Of course, trying to **find** the works of Shakespeare among the monkeys’ output would be like trying to find them in [The Library of Babel.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_babel) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/7 "2012-05-15T02:57:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.” - Robert Wilensky So true. And, for your further amusement, you can look for this thread in MPSIMS. (There really is no debate, here.) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/8 "2012-05-15T03:41:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Been a Long, Long Time . . .](http://ansible.co.uk/sfx/sfx092.html) Dang Machine… ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/9 "2012-05-15T11:56:42Z")
To get a typical SDMB post - six monkeys, 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/10 "2012-05-15T13:11:56Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > It’s no use debating about infinities. Given just a couple of million years, with just a handful of monkeys, one of them DID come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Discuss. Uh, no. [The experimental evidence](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3013959.stm) is against you: A bizarre experiment by a group of students has found monkeys cannot write Shakespeare. Lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth wanted to test the claim that an infinite number of monkeys given typewriters would create the works of The Bard. A single computer was placed in a monkey enclosure at Paignton Zoo to monitor the literary output of six primates. But after a month, the Sulawesi crested macaques had only succeeded in partially destroying the machine, using it as a lavatory, and mostly typing the letter “s”. But towards the end of the experiment, their output slightly improved, with the letters A, J, L and M also appearing. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/11 "2012-05-15T14:16:37Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Uh, no. [The experimental evidence](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3013959.stm) is against you: > > A bizarre experiment by a group of students has found monkeys cannot write Shakespeare. Lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth wanted to test the claim that an infinite number of monkeys given typewriters would create the works of The Bard. A single computer was placed in a monkey enclosure at Paignton Zoo to monitor the literary output of six primates. > > But after a month, the \*\*Sulawesi crested macaques \*\*had only succeeded in partially destroying the machine, using it as a lavatory, and mostly typing the letter “s”. But towards the end of the experiment, their output slightly improved, with the letters A, J, L and M also appearing. Bolding mine There’s your problem. If you want Shakespeare you can’t use the Sulawesi crested macaque. They’re better at performance art; you use them when you put on the show. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/12 "2012-05-15T15:06:06Z")
So what species of monkey would produce Shakespeare if given a keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/13 "2012-05-15T15:52:46Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Uh, no. [The experimental evidence](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3013959.stm) is against you: I think you’re missing the OP’s point, which is that a “handful of monkeys,” plus evolution plus time, produced the human race, which produced Shakespeare himself who produced the works of Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/14 "2012-05-15T16:34:40Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So what species of monkey would produce Shakespeare if given a keyboard? Possibly [this one](http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Monkey-Shakespeare-220x284.jpg), which looks like a white-headed capuchin. ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/15 "2012-05-15T16:55:04Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I think you’re missing the OP’s point, which is that a “handful of monkeys,” plus evolution plus time, produced the human race, which produced Shakespeare himself who produced the works of Shakespeare. Yeah, it eemed really deep after several beers last night. Oh well. Also I think that trying to do this experimentally is missing the point of the thought experiment. ‘Monkeys on typewriters’ can be substituted for anything which randomly generates letters, spaces, punctuation etc. It was never meant to actually be done and the idea that the experimenters expected the monkeys to do anything other than defecate on the typwriters or try to eat bits of them seems a bit silly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/16 "2012-05-15T17:19:19Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > ‘Monkeys on typewriters’ can be substituted for anything which randomly generates letters, spaces, punctuation etc. See post #6. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/17 "2012-05-15T17:54:49Z")
I’d be more interested in the monkeys which _almost_ create Shakespeare, but for a few key words. Setting _Romeo and Juliet_ in Swindon, for example, or replacing the speech Catherine gives at the end of _Taming of the Shrew_ with an impassioned polemic on the use of primates in thought experiments meant to demonstrate infinity. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/18 "2012-05-15T18:45:40Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > I’d be more interested in the monkeys which _almost_ create Shakespeare, but for a few key words. Setting _Romeo and Juliet_ in Swindon, for example, or replacing the speech Catherine gives at the end of _Taming of the Shrew_ with an impassioned polemic on the use of primates in thought experiments meant to demonstrate infinity. [It was the best of times…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcSUWP0QNeY) ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/19 "2012-05-15T19:32:43Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I think you’re missing the OP’s point, which is that a “handful of monkeys,” plus evolution plus time, produced the human race, which produced Shakespeare himself who produced the works of Shakespeare. Whenever I see someone implying that human beings are monkeys or are descended from monkeys, I have to needle them a bit because it’s not quite scientifically correct, as discussed in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=607764). ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954/20 "2012-05-15T19:58:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Whenever I see someone implying that human beings are monkeys or are descended from monkeys, I have to needle them a bit because it’s not quite scientifically correct, as discussed in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=607764). I was using a little poetic license here. I would never normally refer to a human as a monkey, although it’s not as far off the mark as people might think. Humans are apes, and there is no real reason other than convention why you couldn’t describe apes as a kind of monkey. it’s more to do with morphological similarities, like taillesness, than with relatedness. If we saw the common ancestor of humans and monkeys we would almost certainly call it a monkey, so I think saying that we are ‘descended from monkeys’ is justifyable although we are obviously not descended from any extant monkeys. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monkeys-typewriters/621954.md?page=2)