There are some indications in the Bible, that the worship of Jehova started out as Polythesism ( he word for “God” in the early books is “elohim”, which would normally be considered a plural), then was henotheistic ( my god is powerful in my lands, yours in your lands), and later, after the Captivity, went to strict Monotheism. Of course, nobody is sure.
Danielinthewolvesden:
Well, Deuteronomy 6:4 seems to be pretty clear on the matter.
Chaim Mattis Keller
Deut 6;4 really does not make it clear. In any case, Deut comes later than Genesis, as I said, the Jewish faith appeared to change. However, If the original jewish faith WAS polytheistic, it was prior to the Covenant.
It doesn’t? It says, in no unclear terms, that G-d is one, i.e., there is a single entity who is to be regarded as the power-that-is in the world and therefore worshipped.
If there was a change from Genesis to Exodus (when the covenant was first recorded) to Deuteronomy, then why are all the same names of G-d used in all? You’d expect one to have disappeared or something.
Chaim Mattis Keller
I’m just not sure where you’re getting the polytheistic angle, daniel. Would you please cite some passages that demonstrate this?
Sorry, besides the “elohim” thing, I mean.
hey CMKELLER I posted this earlier.
I saw what you posted.
However, it is certainly not reflected in Jewish theology going back several thousand years.
The Talmud is quite clear that Elo-him, El and the four-letter name of G-d are references to different behaviors of the same being. And yes, El and Elo-him are forms of the same root word.
The Baals were always considered by Judaism to be a form of idolatry.
The Israelites and Phoenicians did live in the same area, but the religions of the two should not be conflated with one another.
Chaim Mattis Keller
I don’t have access to the Anchor Bible right now, but in Asimov’s Guide to the Bible*, pg18
“The Hebrew word, translated here (Gen 1:1)as God is “Elohim” and that is a plural form which would ordinarily…be translated “gods”. It is possible that in the very earliest traditions on which the Bible is based, the creation was indeed the work of a plurality of gods. The firmly monotheistic Biblical writers would carefully have eliminated such polythesism, but could not perhaps do anything with the firmly engrained term ‘Elohim’…Some hints of polythesism seem to have survived the editing…” (Asimov goes on the quote Gen 3:22, and G11:7)
No proof, but evidence- yes.
*Avenal Books, 1981.
Asimov was a committed atheist. I don’t know if he ever so much as looked at a Talmud, but he certainly didn’t put much stock into what it said, because as a committed atheist, he automatically disregarded interpretation of the Scriptures by those who actually live their lives by them.
The basic idea, from the original Hebrew, is that “El” is a generic word meaning “power.” When it or any form of it is used as a proper noun, it refers to the source of all power, i.e., G-d. This includes the plural form which refers to the many powers that G-d exercises.
That is the Talmudic Jewish view of the term, going back several thousand years. Any speculation over whether or not such views had always been held is just that…but it suffers the difficulty of trying to interpolate polytheism into what id known to currently be a strictly monotheistic religion over a semantics problem long since understood, and not merely glossed over, by its adherents.
Chaim Mattis Keller
Asimov got most of his info from the Anchor Bible. I have check it against most of his info, and it mostly backs him up.
I’m not surprised…I mean, if it’s his source, sure it’d back him up. What, exactly, is the Anchor Bible?
Chaim Mattis Keller
These are a couple of interesting questions.
- How/why do monotheistic religions explain people who pray to many gods?
Well… it seems to me that the Christian would respond that polytheists are worshipping “false” gods… idols… etc. It’s not just saying that Satan deceived them into worshipping several gods. Rather, I think it’s more like saying that Satan has deceived them into not believing in the one God, and as a result, polytheists have formed idols and many gods in an attempt to serve their spiritual needs.
- How/why did the split develop?
I may have missed it, but I didn’t see anybody suggest that the split developed when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit. According to Christianity, this is when Adam gained knowledge of good and evil. This was like the beginning of the chain of events that led mankind into various forms of idolatry. So perhaps you could argue that the “split” actually began clear back then.
Finally, as to which came first, the chicken or the egg… err… polytheism or monotheism. I actually got into a rather spirited debate with a good friend over this subject once. It seems to me that if you are a Christian, you have to argue that monotheism came first. After all, the Bible begins with creation and at creation Adam and Eve were with God in the garden… just one God. Now, if you discount the veracity of the Bible, then it’s quite possible that there is archeological proof of polytheism that predates any discovered evidence of monotheism from an earlier time. But perhaps that is a debate for a different thread?
–I am Soren Kierkegaard.–
“People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.”
Polytheistic cultures may just be more inclusive than Monotheistic ones. It’s much easier to convince someone to accept your god in addition to his own than it is to get him to take yours instead of his own.
So perhaps different tribes each adopted their own Gods and then merged the pantheons when they came together (either adding the new deities, or occasionally deciding that two gods or goddesses were the same with multiple names).
If a monotheist were to argue this, he might claim that none of those individual gods is strong enough to command a following like the one, true God. Hence, followers have to band together and merge religions in order to gain enough strength to attack the true believers.