A god is a being with superhuman powers. He/she is not forcefully all-powerful. The gods in Greek, Roman or Norse mythologies have great albeit limited powers.
According to Christian mythology, Satan has superhuman powers, so he is entitled to be classified as a deity. Less powerful then the Creator, but still powerful. Why is he necessary? To tempt the men in order that God can test their faith. Contrarilly to Christian belief, Satan is an ally of God.
As I said in my previous post, only multiple all-powerful deities are logically incompatible.
Yes, but having superhuman powers does not make something a god.
In other words “A implies B” is not logically equivalent to “B implies A.”
My working assumption was that we were classifying gods as they would be in a monotheistic religion, because the OP put the question to monotheists. Under a monotheistic definition, G-d would be more than just a being with superhuman powers. If that were true, then everything that isn’t human would be a god somehow: Cheetahs run faster than humans, so they’re superhuman, so they’re gods.
My post was operating under the guidelines set by the OP. Under those restrictions, Greek, Roman, and Norse mythologies did not contain any gods at all as they would be defined by monotheistic religions. Therefore, even if I were Christian (which I’m not) and attributed the powers you mentioned to Satan, he still wouln’t be worthy of classification as a god.
“You shall have no other gods before me”. That’s a phrase that I’ve wondered about for a long time. Perhaps it’s just an issue of formal, old-fashioned english, but does it necessarily mean the same thing as “You shall believe in not other gods other than me”? Could it not also be read as “You shall have no other gods more important than me”? That phrase would also apply to Jupiter, Zeus, Odin, and the senior gods of many other belief systems.
dmartin, the command “Youi shall have no other gods before me” is immediately preceded by the statement, “I am THE Lord, your God” (emphasis mine). The context clearly shows that Yahweh is to be considered the one true God, not merely the greatest among multiple deities.
Ah, but JT, in my family I am THE father.* That does not preclude there being other fathers in the world. That phrase, “I am the Lord, your God,” doesn’t really say that the other Gods are false. It just says that he is the God of the Hebrews.
Okay, now in which Bible verses does Yahweh tell us that:
- He’s omnipotent
- The only God?
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- Before any of you wiseasses start up, if I’m not then my wife was messing around with somebody who looks just like me and where would be the fun in that? Variety is the spice of life and all.
dropzone, I was specifically addressing dmartin’s question; namely, whether the first commandment could be construed as “You (the Hebrews) shall have no other gods more important than me.” The scenario which you posed is entirely different.
Furthermore, Psalm 86:10 specifically says that Yahweh alone is God, as does 2 Kings 19, verses 15 and 19. He is described as omnipotent in Luke 1:37. There may be other references, but these alone are sufficient to demonstrate his omnipotence and uniqueness.
So did anyone ever interpret who was with God here:
Also, when he was competing for Job’s soul with the “devil”. What would the devil be considered?
ILWN, that verse is one of the classic passages used in support of the Trinity. It is best read in conjunction with John chapter 1, which says that the Word created all things, and that the Word was simultaneously God and with God.
First of all, he wasn’t competing with the devil for Job’s soul, as a straightforward reading shows. Hence, the question which you pose is simply irrelevant. Frankly, I have no idea where you could have gotten that bizarre notion.
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing in the Book of Job to suggest that the devil was a God in any form, shape or fashion. There was simply no contest here, and even if there were, this would not prove (or even suggest) that the devil was another god.
So you’re supposed to look it up if you’re going to deny it. First, define “Sons of God”. The devil challenged God that if Job lost all he had, he would curse God. From where I stand, cursing God would probably cause a problem between God and Job, but we won’t even go there. Just explain why this isn’t a bet/challenge and who the Sons of God are. The theory on the trinity is just that, we have no other documentation to indicate that. That I know of anyway. The devil may not be all powerful, but being immortal, wouldn’t that put him in a god type classification? I don’t believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. Maybe I could if there were more explanations or better ones. I am always open to learning.
Oops. That was Job 1. Thanks.
You’re all forgetting that the devil is an angel, sort of a demi-god-God’s creation. Now what I don’t get is all of this good-evil/ God-Satan struggle, it is all very illogical for an omnipotent being to struggle with his own creation in his own universe. All he’d have to do is recall Satan and eliminate bad, that is within his power, isn’t it? Seems like God doesn’t really give a shit or likes it this way.
…or maybe god is just one of many gods and is not omnipotent.
Poly said,
What’s the difference? How is “ultimate force shaping and transforming the universe” any different from “supernatural being with greater-than-human powers?” It seems to me an ultimate force tht could shape or transform an entire universe has greater-than-human powers.
I think the distinguishing word in Polycarp’s post is “ultimate”. There may indeed be many supernatural forces shaping and transforming the universe, but the Ultimate force is the court of last resort – by definition, no other force is as powerful, indeed all other forces are defined in relation to this Force.
It’s a small step from Uber-Force to “Source of all other forces.” Once you have made that step, you’ve invented monotheism (or should I say, discovered monotheism).
Naturally, and I did indeed look this up. In fact, I have to question whether you even bothered to read the passage which you quoted.
Point #1: Contrary to your claim, the devil was not competing for Job’s soul. Job’s soul wasn’t even mentioned in the text which you quoted. Again, I have to question whether you even bothered to read the passage in question. As you yourself said, “You’re supposed to look it up…”
Point #2: There is no mention of a contest. Satan levelled an accusation against Job, and God basically said, “You’re wrong. Go ahead; see for yourself.” Now I suppose one could squint one’s eyes, shuffle one’s feet and insist that this amounts to a contest, but such an interpretation is positively strained. There were no stakes involved, nor was there any effort or commitment on God’s part. A “contest”? Only by the most generous and strained interpretation of the term.
Not necessary. If you’re going to assert that this could be reasonably interpreted as ascribing deity to Satan, the the burden of proof rests on you. There is absolutely nothing in the phrase itself which suggests that Satan was a god himself.
That’s all irrelevant. It WAS a challenge. In fact, I said so. It was not a contest for Job’s soul though, as a basic reading of the text reveals. Nor was it a bet, since there were no wagers involved.
Secondly, even if it WERE a contest, this would do absolutely nothing to prove that Satan was a god. You are wasting tremendous amounts of effort on pointless and irrelevant minutiae.
No, because human souls are immortal, as are angels. They do not have the property of deity.
In short, you keep wasting efforts on irrelevant points which clearly do not support your contention.
Any definition of any god is purely speculative. We have not been presented with a specimen to study and classify.
qoute:
Multiple gods are also unnecessary. If G-d can do everything, knows everything, and does everything right, which is the basic premise of monotheistic religions, then why would there have to be other gods? What would they do? Sit around in heaven and be insider commentators for MSNBC?
OK, you got me! When I said superhuman I should have said supernatural. Cheetahs run very fast, elephants are very strong, sharks can sense electrical fields, but these are very natural powers.
Any being with powers that defy the laws of nature is, by definition a god, or at least a demigod. So, angels and Satan are at least worth of the calassification of demigods.
IWLN:
The traditional Jewish explanation for this passage is that G-d was talking to the angels. It is intended as an object lesson to show that a superior should always consult with others before making a major decision, even if their assent is not necessary.
As for Satan, G-d does not “compete” with him. Satan (or, more accurately, the Satan) is a job description - he is an adversary of man. He is a servant of G-d whose job is to act as “prosecutor” in the “heavenly court”…which he does by tempting people into sin, thus proving them not righteous.