Monotheists: If one God exists why can't there be many Gods?

Great Debates
61

Ok, it is convenient to say that it served no other purpose than to keep people from straying at that time. Are you saying that it is a commandment that should not be kept now? I would say that a monotheist, by definition, believes in and worships only one God- Christians do not. They attribute much to one God, but don’t actually address him exclusively- most prayers to God by Christians are not actually to God, so much as to other deities.
Three! Three! Three Gods in One!
:smiley: lol

Good point!

62

Oh, heavens! I would never suggest that my pastor, an open-minded and learned man and a friend, would not think of it as an interesting jumping-off point for a discussion. I just don’t want my wife elbowing me in the ribs for seeming like a wiseass. She is strong with sharp elbows.

While researching the one forward pass rule I found the legalization of the forward pass came along with other changes intended to make the game safer. Well, safer for everybody except quarterbbacks, I suppose.

As He had to keep reminding them! :wink:

Numbers 25:1-5

While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the LORD’s anger burned against them. The LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

Judges 2:10-15

After that whole generation had been gathered to their fathers, another generation grew up, who knew neither the LORD nor what he had done for Israel. Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD and served the Baals. They forsook the LORD , the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They provoked the LORD to anger because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. In his anger against Israel the LORD handed them over to raiders who plundered them. He sold them to their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of the LORD was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress.

1 Kings 11:33

I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molech the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in my ways, nor done what is right in my eyes, nor kept my statutes and laws as David, Solomon’s father, did.

63

No, it isn’t. This has been address numerous times already.

If I say “Don’t worship Jupiter!”, is this an admission that Jupiter exists? Of course, not. Similarly, prohibiting Israel from worshipping other gods is not an admission that those other gods exist.

64

I believe the premise of the OP is that a monotheist is a believer in the existence of only one god. To a monotheist, the apparent existence of any others is illusion, delusion or outright fiction.

Of course he is. I don’t think anyone on this thread has posited the “humanity” of God. While many Christians believe God approaches us in the person of Jesus, this does not mean that God is human; God is completely “other”, his nature not discernible.

That’s why Devilknew’s “three gods in one” ditty is so silly - he completely misses the point. Christians (most of 'em, at least) accept that God’s essential nature is not comprehensible by humans, but “three persons in one God” is the closest approximation we can wrap our minds around.

A Christian will be brave enough to say “I don’t know how God can be three persons”, but will believe this to be so, and wait for enlightenment in God’s time. Devilknew seems to be saying “I don’t know how God can be three persons, so he ain’t, and all you Christians are deluding yourselves.”

65

. . . make that devilsknew. My apologies for the consistent mis-spelling.

66

Sergio:

The cult of Aton was not quite the Hebrew model of monotheism.

And what’s to say that Ikhnaton wasn’t influenced by the Hebrews rather than vice versa?

Mhernan:

No, it’s a commandment not to believe that there are other gods. That does not speak to whether or not said belief would be truth or fiction.

dropzone:

True, they had to be corrected when they sinned. And, being human, they dis get tempted into sin. What was your point, exactly?

Chaim Mattis Keller

67

dropzone
I kind of enjoy the irony of quoting verses out of context to say “bad Jew”, or bad whatever group you happen to be poking at, in any given moment(darn my irreverence). In spit of my admittedly biased Christian view, I never failed to realize the difference between the Jewish people and the Jewish faith. People don’t always follow their faith, which just makes them unfaithful. Doesn’t change the faith. Worshipping some metal god is against God in the Jewish faith or Christian. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. It still happens, except our other gods are mass/factory produced now. For every time you can find a place in the scriptures that points out that Israel was doing wrong, another scripture can be referenced in which God is naming Israel as his chosen ones, his beloved. He was always sparing a branch, saving a remnant, forgiving them anyway. See Isaiah 43. He seems to be rather attached to them.:slight_smile: I’m reluctant to criticize my Father’s favorite offspring/branch, since I too need constant reminders by God to be faithful. I’m still working on how significant that new “one forward pass” rule, really is.

68

Mhernan-

ALMOST completely dehumanized? What ALMOST? G-d, in the view of all the monotheists I know, is ENTIRELY dehumanized, unless I’m mistaking what you mean by that.

If G-d were human, well then gee whiz, there’d be, what, almost 7 billion gods or god-equivalents. G-d has to be something other than human. Considering how many mistakes humans make, if a human or humanoid being were running the world, it would be a smoking crater by now.

69

Sorry for getting all snippy at you, Mhernan-- it just seems like you haven’t read the beginning of the thread and are missing the point. End vent session.

70

Maybe you missed my point. I am saying that Christians are not really Monotheists. They claim belief in one God, but worship his son and various other minor deities. Christianity is about as monotheistic as the Ancient Greek and Roman Religions. God (Zeus) is up there at the top but they worship Jesus (Heracles), and have many stories and pray to other minor deities to round out the pantheon (Saints, Archangels, etc.). They even build temples in dedication to various minor deities, much like temples for Apollo, Athena : St. Pauls Cathedral, Our lady of Lourdes, etc.

What I am saying is “I know how God can be three persons to you, so he is to you. You are deluding yourself if you believe you are not in violation of the first Commandment.” I understand Trinity and Triune quite well as a paradox in many religions and have a spiritual understanding as well. In Christianity it is used to justify the violation of the first Commandment. Christians go to Church and pray before the crucified Christ and violate the first Commandment consistently. The first Commandment is quite clear about this. Quite simply, if you are a Christian you are a polytheist and believe in more than just one God and essentially are contradicting the very groundworks for your religion.

71

I think I understood your point the first time. I’m simply refuting your assertion that Christians are not really Monotheists. The Trinity specifically defines God as one deity, not three. We (not trying to be monolithic here, but generally) worship God - Father, Son, Holy Spirit, one God, three persons, and we don’t understand how that can be but it is. We certainly pray to the crucified Christ - one “aspect” of the God who remains a mystery to us in so many ways.

I don’t expect you to agree with me, and that’s okay. But I don’t think I misunderstood your statements.

Minor deities? Nope. Not a one. My denomination prays to God only; not saints, not Mary, nobody but God (so much for monolithic Christianity). Even those folks who do “pray” to saints, are simply asking for their prayers to God, just as I would ask a friend to pray for me. It’s certainly not worship.

And you cannot be serious in your contention that a “Church of St. Rimshot” is a temple to Rimshot, can you? I know the folks who worship in such a place don’t see it that way, so you shouldn’t pretend to, either.

We have a legitimate disagreement on the nature of the Trinity; no need to “create” other issues about which to argue! :wink:

72

You said I missed the point with my little ditty, I was just clarifying for you. I wasn’t calling into question the nature of the trinity. It is a fact that Christians worship something other than God. Otherwise it wouldn’t be called Christianity, would it ? It would just be Judaism and a true monotheism. Admit it -you pray to Zeus in Hercules name don’t you? Ermm…Excuse me, pray to God in Jesus’ name?

73

devilsknew
I would have to agree with rimshotgdansk. When I was a Christian, I was taught that they were one, just different aspects of the same God. I also have to ask you when you agreed earlier to what Mhearn said, what the heck were you agreeing to? I think you’re the only one that ever understood what he was saying? See below:

74

Of course you were taught that he was the same as God. That’s the whole point- it’s a very subjective viewpoint. Conveniently, this equation skirts the First Commandment. If you step outside- objectively and logically you are all praying to a man, not God. I’m certain that cmkeller would have insight into this, as this is where Judaism and Christianity depart.

as far as Mhernan- I did it to make him feel good!..I didn’t understand his points at all. I just wanted to be cordial, I guess. I probably shouldn’t have encouraged him.

75

No I wasn’t taught he was the same as … I was taught they were one. I actually was never taught to pray “to” Jesus either, but they were not separate. I’m not really worried about it though. If it somehow broke a commandment, which I don’t think so, it wasn’t the first one I broke.:wink:

Good, I was worried about you being worse off than I already suspected you were. :eek:

76

Now C’mon !
How bad off do you suspect me of being?
Do I appear that bent or what?
I felt a bit of hurt on this… Crazies have feelings too, you know!
:frowning:

77

Okay, now you’re just playing games. Your’s not saying that Jews worship Juda, are you? Of course not.

The crux of the matter is, since do not accept the Christian understanding of the Trinity, it looks like polytheism to you. Without an agreement on the basic definitions, there’s no chance for agreement on the ensuing conclusion.

Just be careful how you couch your statements. Better to say “I think y’all worship something other than God”, than

In matters of theology, it’s always wise to leave a little wiggle-room. . . ;j

78

I try to take contrarian positions occasionally, but this is all starting to make me feel a bit like a Jehovah’s Witness!
No offense to Jehovah’s witnesses, but I am not.

79

Well I did use precognition and the outcome is certain.

Now you’re supposed to say “Good Point”.

80

Discredit what I say, if you can. The fact remains that you do not worship the one God Jehovah. That’s the whole premise and foundation of Christianity and is why Christianity is not Judaism…No, I am not saying that Jews worship Juda they worship one god Yahweh, I am saying that Christians worship Christ and Yahweh. Two seperate deities, no matter how interchangeable they might be they are two seperate theos…Go Micronaut with em all you want. In most forms of Christianity you do not believe in one God - I would suggest that Judaism is truly monotheistic, Christianity has built upon that and has many godheads.