# Montreal Cognitive Assessment - I Guess I am Just Not as Smart as the President **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 25, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273 "2020-07-25T00:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/41 "2020-07-25T20:14:29Z")
It’s not unrelated - they’re testing the same thing - but they are clearly separate. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/42 "2020-07-25T21:29:41Z")
But if 1 is two unrelated problems that changes everything.! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/43 "2020-07-25T22:08:44Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Uh-oh… > [@dropzone](#): > > But if 1 is two unrelated problems that changes everything.! I don’t understand these cryptic responses. I there something I’m missing about how the first problem also relates to a cube? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/44 "2020-07-25T22:47:28Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I’ve given cognitive tests to a lot of people. Sometimes families request they be given. This is usually because the person is getting lost in their own neighbourhood, thinks it is 1974, or cannot recognize family members. So it’s a pretty distinguished group. Thus spake the Orange Buffoon: "The doctor came into the room, but he didn’t really know where he was, or what year or day it was. He had to ask me, and I knew all the answers, and I explained it to him. “Sir,” he exclaimed in astonishment, “sir, how is it possible for you to know so much?”. I explained that I was a genius, though many people didn’t know it, because of the lying lamestream media. I also told him I was able at a glance to identify all of my family members, plus many other people I know, except those that I’ve never met in my life, like Paul Manafort, Jeffrey Epstein, or Ghislaine Maxwell. The doctor was so impressed that he said that he wanted to give me a special Genius Test, which tests for geniuosity, which no one in history had ever passed, because it’s so hard. I aced it, and the doctor was in shock and disbelief. “Sir,” he said, “sir, no one has ever passed this test before, because it is so hard! Yet all your answers were perfect.” “I know,” I said, “especially those trick animal pictures. I bet I’m the only one who recognized the hairy dog, the unicorn, and the humped African horsie”. “Yes,” said the doctor, “you are”. “I then showed the doctor where the door was, in case he was still lost, as he seemed in a hurry to leave.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/45 "2020-07-25T23:51:38Z")
This video is just under 12 minutes long, so watch it or not, you know, if you do or don’t have the time. The title of the video is pretty cool: “Trump Explains Cognitive Test, Forgets What It’s Called” So, you know, I recommend it, but you know, it’s your time and all of that… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/VBGtG9xEoM8/hqdefault.jpg "Trump Explains Cognitive Test, Forgets What It's Called") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBGtG9xEoM8) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/46 "2020-07-26T00:15:39Z")
It doesn’t! And that is the beauty part. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/47 "2020-07-26T01:05:08Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > ETA: I’m not sure how you’re seeing a cube come out of the first one. > [@Riemann](#): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > .Uh-oh… > > Huh? Sorry! You pointed out that **Hari\_Seldon** was seeing a cube in the number/letter section. I was faking concern that he was congnitively not doing so well on the test. (I have no doubt Hari\_Seldon would ace the actual test with his eyes closed.) **dropzone** is referring to the same section of the test and implying it may be more complex than we realized. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/48 "2020-07-26T01:07:12Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Seriously, if he didn’t pass would “Dr”. Ronny Jackson tell anyone? Announce to the liberal Trump-hating media that Trump flunked his cognitive test? I bet he wouldn’t even tell Trump. He would just mark everything Trump said as correct. If Trump looked at a picture of a lion and called it an elephant, Jackson would say … “Yep, that’s an elephant. You are a genius, Mr. President. No one has ever gotten that I e right before. Are you implying that someone would tell trump what he wants to hear instead of what’s reality? Surely you jest! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/49 "2020-07-26T01:07:17Z")
I think it’s a Labrador Retriever and a Beagle in an ill fitting Black Rhino costume. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/50 "2020-07-26T01:28:07Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > > [@Riemann](#): > > > > You’re supposed to figure out the sequence goes 1-A-2-B-3-C-4-D-5-E > > Yes I got that, but that’s not what the instructions says, which is to copy that cube. You get a cube sure enough, but not a copy of the displayed one. > [@Riemann](#): > > I think copying the cube is an unrelated second problem. But it’s a bit confusing, it’s poorly laid out. I’m a psychiatrist and I’ve administered the MoCA to many patients. The test is not administered simply by putting the sheet of paper in front of the patient and saying “go.” The examiner gives the patient verbal instructions for each question as it’s done, which are laid out in an examiner’s guide. (Also, typically we fold the sheet of paper over width-wise so the patient can’t see the questions on the bottom half which entail reading words, sentences, or letters off to them.) The instruction for #1, the alternating trails test, is “Please draw a line, going from a number to a letter in ascending order. Begin here [point to (1)] and draw a line from 1 then to A then to 2 and so on. End here [point to (E)].” Incidentally, you’d be surprised at how many people of seemingly at least average intelligence can’t do that one right. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/51 "2020-07-26T07:13:47Z")
@Arcite – > [@Arcite](#): > > Incidentally, you’d be surprised at how many people of seemingly at least average intelligence can’t do that one right. How is the overall test scored? Do you just add up a certain number of points for each item and judge the patient’s cognitive status by the total number of points? As I think I understand this test, each item is designed to exercise a specific area of cognitive function. So, if the patient fails any item(s), does that indicate that you should do a more comprehensive follow-up exam focusing specifically on that/those area(s) of cognitive function? Is that how the exam is really meant to be used? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/52 "2020-07-26T07:21:06Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Incidentally, you’d be surprised at how many people of seemingly at least average intelligence can’t do that one right. Donald should be even prouder than he already was. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/53 "2020-07-26T10:28:23Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Incidentally, you’d be surprised at how many people of seemingly at least average intelligence can’t do that one right. Interesting. IIRC, intelligence tests, SATs and the like abound in questions that test abstract thinking skills, like pattern-matching or analogies. That question seems to be a very, very rudimentary level of that class of question, and in fact not even that, because the instructions you mentioned fully explain what the pattern is. If someone couldn’t successfully figure out that pattern yet had an apparently normal functional life, I would attribute it to an older person who had very little or no formal education, to such an extent that they had never been exposed to even the most elementary abstract thinking. OTOH, they might just be stupid. I’d be willing to bet that the Orange Ignoramus had to really think about that one; if his brain had a temperature-controlled fan like many CPU and GPU fans, it would have revved up to high speed for quite some time as his tiny brain struggled with the problem, at risk of overheating. In this case, the patient in question has never had a normal functional life (I’m about halfway through the Mary Trump book which clearly establishes that fact). On at least two occasions, [as noted over here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-niece-putting-out-a-book/855692/105), he’s been defeated in a battle of wits by an umbrella, an inanimate object not known for its intellectual acumen. It’s true that he’s a sociopath suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, but that does not preclude him from also being – in the immortal words of Rex Tillerson – a “fucking moron”. Or in the words of James Mattis, having an understanding of international affairs “on the level of a fifth- or sixth-grader”. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/54 "2020-07-26T13:01:28Z")
That joke wasn’t funny the first time someone here used it and is less funny the 5,000th time. I will accept “lighten up Francis” as a reply. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/55 "2020-07-26T15:50:06Z")
MoCA (and MMSE) is a screening instrument. It’s intended to point toward specific, more extensive testing in the domains the examinee fails. Most, if not all, of the questions are based on or are questions from those tests. These are tests of neurological functions. While you might get some practice effect from counting backward from 100 by 7s every day or drawing clock faces, a stroke, head trauma, or dementia is still likely to affect your performance. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/56 "2020-07-26T18:56:51Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But what do you get if you cross it with an elephant? > > Elephino! Q. What do you do with an elephant with three balls? A. Walk him and pitch to the rhino. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/57 "2020-07-26T19:22:14Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > That joke wasn’t funny the first time someone here used it and is less funny the 5,000th time. I will accept “lighten up Francis” as a reply. **lighten up Francis** ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/58 "2020-07-26T21:26:31Z")
I’m really tired of the casual bigotry on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/59 "2020-07-26T21:52:15Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Yes it’s a Rhino > > > [@Dinsdale](#): > > > > But what do you get if you cross it with an elephant? > > > > Elephino! A joke that reminded me, a joke that also does check for basic smarts: What do you do with an elephant with 3 balls? . . . Walk him and pitch to the rhino… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273/60 "2020-07-26T22:15:38Z")
It’s a transphobic joke, and one that trans people have asked people to stop making. It makes light of the concept of trans people, making them out to be as unreasonable as someone who thinks an animal cares about its gender. We stopped with the sexist and sexually objectifying jokes to make female posters feel more comfortable. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask that we also stop with the transphobic jokes. I for one totally get where @madmonk28 is coming from. That is all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment-i-guess-i-am-just-not-as-smart-as-the-president/916273.md?page=4)