# Montreal Cognitive Assessment **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 17, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851 "2018-01-17T19:55:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/1 "2018-01-17T19:55:25Z")
Does the Montreal Cognitive Assessment have any credible cognitive value, especially when used alone and with no other mental health tests? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/2 "2018-01-17T20:31:38Z")
From [this site:](https://www.verywell.com/alzheimers-and-montreal-cognitive-assessment-moca-98617) "The MoCA’s advantages include its brevity, simplicity, and reliability as a screening test for Alzheimer’s disease. In addition, it measures an important component of dementia that’s not measured by the MMSE, namely executive function. It seems to work well in Parkinson’s disease dementia, and unlike the MMSE, it is free for non-profit use. Of note, the MoCA is available in more than 35 languages, and there is also a MoCA Test Blind which allows cognitive testing for those who are visually impaired. A disadvantage of the MoCA is that it takes a little longer than the MMSE to administer, and like many other screenings, it should be paired with multiple other screenings and tests to accurately identify and diagnose dementia." Also note that the entire test can easily be found online, so that if someone requests the test then scores a perfect 100% on it, you might not want to rely on it. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/3 "2022-09-23T13:06:54Z")
For any that wanted to take this piece of the FBI/Mar-A-Lago conversation a bit further: > [@FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence (August 8, 2022)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-08-08-22/969329/3260): > > In Canada it is mainly used for dementia of various types. Yes, it is one of many tools to assess delirium and related things but there are often better ones. Never seen it used for substance abuse - how does that work? (Do not want to hijack thread, I assume this is not a common use.) > [@FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence (August 8, 2022)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-08-08-22/969329/3261): > > Not to mention heart failure or HIV… Heart Failure (HF) can, but doesn’t always, mean that the absolute output of the heart is abnormally low. Think about the batteries in your flashlight dying – the light output dims mildly or radically. This can affect any and all organs. The brain – despite its legendary place among the pantheon of organs – is really just an organ, itself, so it’s subject to the same deleterious effects of low cardiac output (cerebral hypoperfusion). This is often experienced as cognitive impairment, dysfunction, or decline – good to test for and monitor over time. IANAD, so … DAMHIKT ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/4 "2022-09-23T13:22:20Z")
Posting my observation here: > [@FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence (August 8, 2022)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022/969329/3256): > > It’s a pretty hard test. If you have advanced dementia. You have to know what a watch is used for _and_ recognize it in the wild. You have to know what the date is and where you are physically located. And you have to draw shapes. I’ve sat in on my mother taking this test a few times over the last 5 years or so. I’m convinced that the first, _secret_ part of the test is whether or not you’re insulted by the suggestion that this test is in any way difficult. Because it’s _not_ difficult at all - _ **if** _ you don’t have at least some dementia. What it means that Trump was bragging about his results on this test is left as an exercise for the readers. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/5 "2022-09-23T19:43:25Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Horatius](#): > > What it means that Trump was bragging about his results on this test is left as an exercise for the readers. Let’s keep the politics out of FQ, please. The factual aspects of the MoCA (what it tests for, how it works, etc) are fine for this thread, but any political implications are best suited to other forums. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/6 "2022-09-24T13:45:47Z")
Is the test always the same five words? Given that the list of words isn’t exactly a secret, you’d think that that would impair its usefulness. And I’ve heard my mom and others of her age cohort describing another, similar test (but with different words): IIRC, it was something with “chair”, “banana”, and “breakfast”? Is there some reason why any particular set of common words would be preferred over another? Why wouldn’t they just pick five words at random each time, selected from the list of the ten hundred most common words? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/7 "2022-09-24T14:56:15Z")
I’m not sure whether the test given at my Medicare wellness exam this week was the actual MoCa — the nurse only used three words instead of the five used in the past — but in this case they were village/child/kitchen (or as the Younger Ottlet put it, “it takes a village to raise a child in the kitchen”). ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/montreal-cognitive-assessment/806851/8 "2022-09-25T23:04:38Z")
I’ve had the ‘Remember these three words for later’ test done twice. First was in my teens, three very random words, it was fortyish years before I couldn’t easily remember them. Second time was recently, I’m in my late fifties, three words I was easily able to turn into something easy to remember like Otto did. I chided the last tester for choosing three words that were far too easy to do that with. Makes me wonder which was a more revealing test. I’d think constructing a memory aid requires more cognitive ability than just rote memorization? Not remembering that _remember_ has a second ‘m’ should be telling too!