# Monty Python, Kids in the Hall, or SNL? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 24, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357 "2007-03-24T21:09:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/21 "2007-03-24T23:23:12Z")
I tend to like British humor a lot. Some of my favorite comedy is Monty Python and Black Adder. that’s not to say I like all of it (hate Benny Hill) or that I don’t like other kinds of humor, just that it’s a favorite genre of mine. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/22 "2007-03-24T23:32:16Z")
[QUOTE=NoClueBoy] Quite a few early Python skits and characters were reworks of (or based on) original Goon Show material. [/QUOTE] Cite? While I agree with you that the Goon Show inspired and influenced the Pythons, I’ve listened to every extant Goon Show and watched every Monty Python TV episode and film many, many times, and I can’t think of any examples. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/23 "2007-03-25T00:20:47Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] **Cite?** While I agree with you that the Goon Show inspired and influenced the Pythons, I’ve listened to every extant Goon Show and watched every Monty Python TV episode and film many, many times, and I can’t think of any examples. [/QUOTE] 😛 How did I know that word would come up? While I have to admit that I hate quoting anything from Wiki, what I found there meshes fairly well with my post (which has taken many years and a lot of beer to form and was not meant as an authoritative statement). [Wiki crap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goon_Show#Monty_Python) > [@](#): > > Monty Python > > The future members of Monty Python were fans, and they have on many occasions expressed their collective debt to Milligan and The Goons,[18] but ironically their famous TV series over-shadowed Milligan’s later anarchic TV efforts (such as the Q series) – even though the Python team have credited Milligan and especially Q as being the source of two key Python features – sketches didn’t have to be “about” real subjects and they didn’t have to follow conventional structures, particularly in respect to ending sketches without the traditional punchline. > > In a memorial show for Milligan, Terry Jones recalled that he and the Monty Python team, while trying to think up a new sketch, were confronted by an old man at the door trying to sell them a wheelbarrowful of manure. They took this as a sign from above and made a sketch in which a similar thing happened to an upper class dinner party. Jones was horrified to discover, years later, that Spike Milligan had created an almost identical sketch years before, and had in all probability gone to his grave believing that it had been stolen. Jones then apologised to Spike in heaven from the stage.[citation needed] > > Although Python now seems to be the more quoted, it is fair to say that virtually all British alternative comedy in its modern form is based on the model created for The Goon Show by Milligan.[citation needed] Please note that the Wiki crap posted is also without cite, but it does echo my _opinion_ of MP and The Goons, which is how I should have listed it in my previous post. If I had the gumption, I might be able to find more authoritative stuff, but all I really wanted to do was point out how marvelous and how influential an even earlier group of performers was. They don’t get enough credit, imho. YMMV, of corse, and thanks for challanging me. Hopefully someone else may learn to love The Goons. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/24 "2007-03-25T00:47:30Z")
Monty Python edges out SNL. The problem is that SNL has been around for so long that people forget just how revolutionary it was in the beginning. It didn’t reach the same level as Monty Python, but it (and the National Lampoon, where SNL got many of its original writing and performing talent) was way head of the game back in the early 70s. It deteriorated after the original crew left, and has continued fairly well over the years, but nothing like the beginning. But, saying that, I give an edge to SCTV. Highly influential (take a look at the cast – John Candy, Harold Ramis, Dave Thomas, Rick Moranis, Catherine O’Hara), and often better than SNL when they were going head-to-head (locally, SCTV followed SNL and often topped it). ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/25 "2007-03-25T00:49:21Z")
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that Python cribbed (intentionally or not) a sketch from one of the Q series. Unfortunately, we 'Merkins have never seen any of the Qs. I’ve seen a few clips on the Spike tribute shows, but nothing else. (Last time I looked, none of the Q series were available on video. If anyone knows if that’s changed, I’d love to know about it.) But, as you know, The Goon Show wasn’t a sketch show in the same way as Python. My memory gets worse every day, so I won’t say categorically that Python’s never used a single word from a Goon Show, but thirty years ago when I started watching the Pythons, my memory was just fine (IIRC), and I think I would have noticed then. (And would remember now that I noticed then.) So while I agree, along with everyone else in the world, that Python was influenced by the Goons, I think it’s wrong to say that they reworked or borrowed material from Spike. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/26 "2007-03-25T00:52:50Z")
[QUOTE=NoClueBoy] 😛 How did I know that word would come up? While I have to admit that I hate quoting anything from Wiki, what I found there meshes fairly well with my post (which has taken many years and a lot of beer to form and was not meant as an authoritative statement). [Wiki crap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goon_Show#Monty_Python) Please note that the Wiki crap posted is also without cite, but it does echo my _opinion_ of MP and The Goons, which is how I should have listed it in my previous post. If I had the gumption, I might be able to find more authoritative stuff, but all I really wanted to do was point out how marvelous and how influential an even earlier group of performers was. They don’t get enough credit, imho. YMMV, of corse, and thanks for challanging me. Hopefully someone else may learn to love The Goons. [/QUOTE] The quotation from the Wikipedia article only claims that MP borrowed two\* features\* of Goonies’ sketches: that they need not be “about” anything and that they need not have a conventional structure. I don’t see any evidence whatsoever that they actually borrowed sketches from them. I’m not getting anything close to the mileage you’re getting out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/27 "2007-03-25T00:56:02Z")
_MPFC_ by a country mile. I prefer _SCTV_ to _KITH_, and I don’t think _SNL_ deserves to mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/28 "2007-03-25T00:57:53Z")
Fine, guys. I admitted it was an OPINION and stand corrected. Let’s move on, all of us still liking The Goons in our own peculiar way. As for the SNL thoughts, I think the changing writers had a bit to do with how memorable certain seasons may be to some people. For all of us that recall the original Not Ready For Prime Time Players as being the best evah!, let’s not forget how many dud scetches they bored us with, too. It wasn’t all Samurai Tailor and Land Sharks. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/29 "2007-03-25T00:59:42Z")
Python by miles, followed by the first few seasons of SNL. KITH doesn’t even register on the scale, and it’s logarithmic. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/30 "2007-03-25T01:04:56Z")
1. **Monty Python** by a mile 2. SNL but I think SCTV was better 3. Kids In the Hall (The low rating is only based on my never having seen it). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/31 "2007-03-25T01:21:11Z")
All humor is hit and miss. Something someone finds hilarious the next is bored by. In its time SNL has done great humor bits. But 30 plus years with many many shows will have a lot of misses. Do not forget the many classic bits. It was the place for singers and groups to showcase themselves. Python best ever . Movies were great. Programs were of course hit and miss ,but you were in for something completely different. innovation and stretching the boundries. Because they were so long ago we forget the ground they forged. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/32 "2007-03-25T02:04:50Z")
I would like to throw in another show I use to watch on the local PBS station as it was a Canadien import, SCTV. John Candy, Eugene Levy, Joe Flaherty, Andrea Martin, Rick Moranis, Catherine O’Hara, Harold Ramis, Martin Short, and Dave Thomas. All have made a name for themselves since the show aired. I much preferred it over the other 3 selections. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/33 "2007-03-25T02:40:51Z")
[ol] [li]Monty Python[/li][li]Kids In The Hall (a close second)[/li][li]First two seasons of SNL[/li][li]The State[/li][li]The National Lampoon Radio Hour[/li][li]Fridays[/li][li]SCTV[/li][/ol] For me, the “classic” Saturday Night Live, The State, and The National Lampoon Radio Hour are so close as to be virtually a tie, because they shared a key attribute: All three were wicked hit-or-miss. They might have a skit that completely sucked immediately followed by a side-splitter. I added “Fridays” in there because even though most people considered the show a weak ABC rip-off of Saturday Night Live, there were some bits that I really loved. And even though I really liked SCTV, there were more yawny stretches there for me than in any of the others combined. But when they hit, they were great. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/34 "2007-03-25T02:58:38Z")
I never got into SCTV. They did it in reruns several years ago and everyone was all excited, so I watched a few. I was so bored by it that I didn’t watch more than that. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/35 "2007-03-25T03:02:29Z")
I’m going to jump on the “1-MP, 2-KitH, 3-SNL” bandwagon but I’d like to know where you all think **Laugh-In** falls? It’s not exactly in the same category, the sketches weren’t as topical, and many were just one liners acted out, but still. I’m putting after KitH but in from of SNL. **Uvula donor** - your list is missing something. Where would you rank MadTV? And what about the granddaddies of them all: Ernie Kovacks’ show (the title of which escapes me just now) and Sid Caesar’s **Your Show of Shows**? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/36 "2007-03-25T05:43:14Z")
My current favorite is **A Bit of Fry and Laurie**. It’s not quite as funny as Python, but it’s also not as aloof, and the chemistry between the two stars is stunning. I’ve never seen comedians so good at playing off each other since maybe the Marx Brothers. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/37 "2007-03-25T05:48:47Z")
[QUOTE=Subterraneanus] _MPFC_ by a country mile. I prefer _SCTV_ to _KITH_, and I don’t think _SNL_ deserves to mentioned. [/QUOTE] Too lazy (drunk) to reply, so this will do. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Metal_Lotus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/38 "2007-03-25T06:50:41Z")
Well, for us people old enough to remember when the great ice sheets of the last global glaciation receeded, FireSign Theatre must be mentioned… Many of National Lampoons/Early SNL crew cut their teeth there… Kids in the hall was occasionally brilliant, early SNL had the ability to actually shoot some pretty sharp barbs at politicans and others "powers that be"and the like. Now a days its humour is based upon puns and such, and does little to lambaste (sp?) anything more current than the latest celebrity scandal Monty Python broke ground on television (at least in north america)… the plotnessness, the anarchy and the utter giggle till you wet yourself sillyness of it was a sea changein the way humour was “done”. think of it this way… If an alien race started recieveing our TV broadcasts… which would you have them see; the senselessness of Monty Python, or the Senselssness of Vietnam war coverage? regards FML ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/39 "2007-03-25T07:36:46Z")
Monty Python for sure. Not only the most original, but also the most consistently funny. I don’t think they ever went through a dry spell. I must admit I’ve never seen “Kids in the Hall,” only heard of them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357/40 "2007-03-25T07:47:05Z")
\*Monty Python’s Flying Circus \* and the first five seasons of \*Saturday Night Live \* are both classics that will–and should be–remembered and enjoyed for generations to come. They both introduced us to some of the funniest people of the era. \*Kids in the Hall \* will be remembered–if at all–as a show Dave Foley did before _Newsradio_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-python-kids-in-the-hall-or-snl/397357.md?page=3)