# Monty: What if anything is your point about Thailand's royals?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 12, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818 "2015-09-12T14:22:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/61 "2016-01-01T03:27:14Z")
Are you sure you’re not trying to say “kook”, as in weirdo, or strange person? Cuck is short for cuckold, which is a man who’s wife cheats on him (because cuckoos lay their eggs in other birds’ nests), and lately some MRA people use it to refer to men they don’t feel are “masculine” enough, or who let their wives be too independent.
I don’t think it fits here.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/62 "2016-01-01T05:24:55Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Not agreeing with you doesn’t make me a racist, sweets. You never fail to give me a laugh though, keep up the good work!
In other words, you have no actual counterargument.
You said a bunch of mindless drivel. Of course democracy requires the ability to criticize one’s leaders. Rule by the people requires the ability to challenge the government as it is.
You showed a distinct lack of caring about human life by saying “let them have their coups.” So, because they’re Asian, it’s okay for all people to die so that the government can change?
And you can’t have a king with actual power and a democracy.
You laugh at Qin because he has good points and you can’t actually argue against him. It’s all you can do. Believe me, I’ve gotten used to noticing when that happens.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/63 "2016-01-01T06:47:06Z")
Yes, yes, you all know begetter than the Thai’s how their democracy should look. And no democracy is legitimate unless it’s identical to American Democracy. And yes, you all are very clever to demand for the Thais what they don’t seem to want.
Brilliant! Keep that up! The Thai’s seem to think you are just interferers though, with no real interest in what would suit them. Yeah, sorry about that. What do they know anyway, right? They’re not even doing it right, because they’re not doing it your way! As soon as they figure that out I’m sure they’ll be on your side.
Ever stop to wonder why it grinds you so much that, by an enormous majority, they love their King and support him in all things? I thought not. It’s a detail that needn’t bother you, don’t be concerned.
Just keep on raging away because you know better than they do, what’s best for them. Seems almost Colonial though, just sayin’!
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/64 "2016-01-01T07:25:13Z")
How can anyone know what the Thais want or don’t want, like or don’t like, if they’re not allowed to express their opinion? You say the Thais love their king. Do they? Or are they just afraid to say they don’t?
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/65 "2016-01-01T08:29:23Z")
You can easily ask them. They will openly admit they don’t agree with how the law is currently being enforced and in the next breath admit though, near everyone loves and supports the king.
And they don’t mind the coups, just ask them. I’ve been here for two, their biggest concern was universally how it might snarl traffic. Yes, there have been a couple with some violence. But they were the exception not the rule and it was quickly quelled.
It’s the same old tripe that they rage against in Singapore. You could land in jail for criticizing the government! And you could. In my country you could land in jail for spreading hatred. Yeah, yeah, it’s not how America thinks is ideal. So what? Why does every democracy have to be a clone of theirs?
It doesn’t. Period. Expecting it to be is ridiculous.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/66 "2016-01-01T10:31:47Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Yes, yes, you all know begetter than the Thai’s how their democracy should look.
Yes, I’m sure that’s why the Thais have voted for the party that’s been constantly been overthrown by coups in [every](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2001) [election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2005) [they’ve held](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007) [since the turn of the millennium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011).
> [@](#):
>
> And no democracy is legitimate unless it’s identical to American Democracy.
Except nobody said that.
> [@](#):
>
> And yes, you all are very clever to demand for the Thais what they don’t seem to want.
>
> Brilliant! Keep that up! The Thai’s seem to think you are just interferers though, with no real interest in what would suit them. Yeah, sorry about that. What do they know anyway, right? They’re not even doing it right, because they’re not doing it your way! As soon as they figure that out I’m sure they’ll be on your side.
So is that why the party that keeps getting overthrown in coups win every election? Is that why there was a [mass protest movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Front_for_Democracy_Against_Dictatorship)? All your hormonal passive-aggressiveness aside, you don’t seem to provide any evidence for the suppose docility of the Thai populace.
> [@](#):
>
> Ever stop to wonder why it grinds you so much that, by an enormous majority, they love their King and support him in all things? I thought not. It’s a detail that needn’t bother you, don’t be concerned.
Cite?
> [@](#):
>
> Just keep on raging away because you know better than they do, what’s best for them. Seems almost Colonial though, just sayin’!
Colonial, eh?
You are the one who wrote:
> [@](#):
>
> Viewing Asian governance through a Western looking glass is doomed to failure. Their cultures are very different from the West. While Westerners want to export total freedom to criticize anyone, Asian governments are of a different stripe. More a respect to the Father thing. It’s deeply ingrained. In some ways it works for them and provides stability. Of course in some ways it works against them.
> [@](#):
>
> And it’s very, VERY wrong to think if it’s not a clone of US democracy it’s hopelessly flawed. Asian culture highly values respect for the leader/father/King, while Westerner’s tend to despise such leaders universally, and highly value complete freedom to call their leaders any foul thing they like.
Not just Thai, I might note, but _Asian_. You are the one who subscribes to Victorian narratives about how Asians don’t care for political liberalism and freedom but just bow down and submissively obey the monarch-or the colonial governor-general. You are the one who thinks the Thais/Asians are culturally incapable of practicing democracy with criticism of leaders which is a fundamental part of such. I’m sure the hundreds who died at Tianamen Square agree that they were all obedient Orientals quietly acquiescing to despotism. I’m sure the protestors who died at Gwangju in revolt against Korea’s military junta and the hundreds of thousands of students, workers, and salarymen who participated in mass protests that brought about democracy in the RoK in the 1987 agree with you as well on that point.
> [@elbows](#):
>
> You can easily ask them. They will openly admit they don’t agree with how the law is currently being enforced and in the next breath admit though, near everyone loves and supports the king.
Cite? And again no one’s advocating republicanism in Thailand.
> [@](#):
>
> And they don’t mind the coups, just ask them. I’ve been here for two, their biggest concern was universally how it might snarl traffic. Yes, there have been a couple with some violence. But they were the exception not the rule and it was quickly quelled.
Cite? Any polls?
> [@](#):
>
> It’s the same old tripe that they rage against in Singapore. You could land in jail for criticizing the government! And you could. In my country you could land in jail for spreading hatred. Yeah, yeah, it’s not how America thinks is ideal. So what? Why does every democracy have to be a clone of theirs?
>
> It doesn’t. Period. Expecting it to be is ridiculous.
Ah so the lack of the right to criticize the government is just optional? Even assuming the majority supports this, this means as long as most people don’t mind suppressing freedom of speech it’s fine-rights of the minority be damned.
Yet, the same day you were posting this, you were the one [also sperging out in utterly predictable shitlib moralizing/whining/bitching how majorities in the United States oppose things such as universal health care, gay marriage, and gun control](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=779443) (despite that not being the case). What right do you have as a Canadian to hysterically complain about Americans opposing gay marriage or abortion or universal healthcare if you don’t think Westerners have the right to object to restrictions of freedom of speech in Asian countries? If you are ok with Asians being submissive 12th Century peasants, you should be ok with Americans being fundamentalist right-wing redneck Republicans.
If possible, my opinion of you has lowered even more in the course of posting this. Besides your racism (you are undoubtedly the most racist poster we’ve had, excluding trolls with brief stays, since at least **New Deal Democrat** ) masked by the most annoyingly unitarian puritanical shitlib Canuckistani SJW tendencies, you are also a massive hypocrite.
> [@Frank](#):
>
> But, you see, you don’t use the dictionary definition, 'cause there isn’t one. You use it to mean “a tool of the oligarchy”. You’ve said that. That is not only not the dictionary definition of the word, it’s not the definition of the people that _invented_ the word.
>
> I’ll assume that you’ve gone through the looking glass.
I mean it in the original sense here-as I’ve said if you read through **Shin Ji** ’s posts, he sounds like some sort of a 4chan parody of a politically correct Social Justice Warrior.
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/67 "2016-01-01T13:02:29Z")
So much ignorance to fight. So little time. 😃
I like to understand motives. _ **Why** _ is the military clamping down on drunk driving? Is it acting out of greed or malice? Or is it trying sincerely to serve the public interest?
Go to the table at [the Wikipedia page on traffic deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate) and sort it by total fatalities last year. It may come as no surprise that the top eight countries in that list are essentially just the eight highest-population countries in the world permuted. (Nigeria is only 7th in population but is 3rd by traffic deaths. The U.S. is 3rd in population, but only 6th by traffic deaths.)
But now look at the ninth country in the list. Is it Mexico? Egypt? Any of the other large-population countries? No. The country in ninth place for most traffic deaths is the Kingdom of Thailand. (The figure shown is for 2010 compared with 2012 for Russia. Thailand is probably in 8th place with up-to-date numbers.)
_ **Traffic accidents are a very real problem in Thailand.** _ This may not be obvious to Pattaya visitors, or in Bangkok where the Traffic Jam inhibits speed, but rural roads are a bloodbath. _ **The junta’s crackdown on drunk driving is addressing a real problem.** _
Do the detractors think the junta has some greed motive?? Kickbacks from the company that makes breathalyzers??? I can assure the manufacturers of beer and whiskey have far more money to bribe with. 🙂
I won’t defend every detail of government policy here. Quite to the contrary, those of us who live in rural Thailand and see first-hand the quality of schools and other institutions are well aware that incompetence is a major problem. Thailand has progressed in important ways during recent decades but still has far to go.
And I agree that the threat of vehicle confiscation seems excessive. But two points:
(A) The bark will be bigger than the bite. I don’t expect to see a lot of cars confiscated except in egregious cases.
(B) Law enforcement in the United States of America has been seizing cash and other assets _even with no court order or criminal conviction._
_ **America: Get your own house in order before criticizing others.** _
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/68 "2016-01-01T13:05:23Z")
The military government cannot be evaluated in a vacuum. It came into existence to replace the government of Yingluk Shinawatra. The Yingluk government was an absolute travesty of corruption and incompetence. It would be hilarious if it hadn’t caused so much financial damage to the Kingdom. Even the Great Flood of 2011 can be partly blamed on Yingluk incompetence.
I’ve seen no one in the thread defend the corrupt government that the junta deposed. I doubt if any are stupid enough to try. Yet how can it make sense to condemn this change of government when it was for the better?
Democracy is good. Free elections are good. But let’s not let these trite observations blind us to the practical realities of real countries which have not developed a Western system with Western values. The present crisis in Iraq is partly due to the naive belief in purple-finger democracy; that 51% should dictate to the 49%. _How did that work out for all y’all in Iraq?_
Thailand needs to progress before we can expect good results from elections. Better education, better journalism, and better enforcement of laws against vote-buying are needed.
In the meanwhile, we hear Americans whine about lack of elections. In the same country, no less, where one Party brags about placing obstacles against voting by undesired voters.
_ **America: Get your own house in order before criticizing others.** _
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/69 "2016-01-01T13:14:16Z")
But comparing the military government with the Yingluk kleptocracy is irrelevant to the thread topic anyway. Monty seems fixated on the fact that the junta pays lip-service to the King and the King lends his name to its decrees. _ **The Yingluk kleptocracy also payed lip-service to the King and the King also lent his name to its decrees.** _
Some ignorant people think they understand Thailand, but don’t even realize that it really is a Constitutional Monarchy. Yes, the present King gets much more respect than Queen Elizabeth II and her family. (If a royal family is just to be used as laughing-stock, why have it at all?)
And even ignoring all this, why blame (or, rather, credit) the present King for the coup? His Majesty recently celebrated his 89th birthday and suffers several very serious health problems. His main political intervention is his annual Birthday Speech, but his health has precluded even giving the Birthday Speech for the past two years. ☹
I don’t recommend monarchy, constitutional or otherwise, in general. Each case has to be judged on its merits. Some Kings are bad, some are very bad. But _this_ King has done far more good than harm. Much of the criticism of him shows pathetic ignorance.
Much of the criticism is levied against the Lèse majesté laws specifically. I don’t choose to defend them particularly; I don’t think they’re a big deal one way or the other. _But …_
Would you rather live in a country with Lèse majesté laws, or a country where cops kill 12-year-olds for playing with a toy gun?
Would you rather live in a country with Lèse majesté laws, or a country where cops sic a dog on a baby _after_ confirming that the baby and its family are innocent?
Twenty years ago, Thailand’s Prime Minister was a blatant foul-mouthed thug. (At least Yingluk had high-class diction.) But in America today, a leading candidate for President is a foul-mouthed buffoon.
_ **America: Get your own house in order before criticizing others.** _
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/70 "2016-01-01T14:28:57Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Yes, I’m sure that’s why the Thais have voted for the party that’s been constantly been overthrown by coups in [every](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2001) [election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2005) [they’ve held](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007) [since the turn of the millennium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011).
**Qin** , you’re a pretty smart well-informed guy, but I wonder how much you know about elections in Thailand. In most of the villages near me, people are paid abvout a day’s wages or more for their vote whenever there’s a parliamentary election. _Banks and police are especially busy during the few days before an election._ “Canvassers” withdraw huge sums in small bills to pay voters. The piles of cash make it a dangerous time both for armed robbery and murder. Sometimes canvassers are murdered for their money; sometimes murdered by the politician for keeping the cash instead of distributing it to voters.
In Western democracies, parties have names like Green, Socialist, Christian Democratic, etc., and corresponding platforms. In Thailand most of the parties are of the form Those\_on\_the\_Graft\_Train\_of\_Godfather\_A, Those\_on\_the\_Graft\_Train\_of\_Godfather\_B, Those\_on\_the\_Graft\_Train\_of\_Godfather\_S. When you look at the huge cost of the election – day’s wages for many or most rural voters, big payments between politicians – you can imagine what the agenda is once elected. :eek: As often as not, a Province’s crime bosses and members of parliament are the same people.
But I can’t argue with Americans who think they know everything. At least Thailand, whatever its faults, hasn’t been subjugated to the purple-finger democracy blessing you bestowed on Iraq.
---
### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/71 "2016-01-01T14:34:40Z")
Yeah I’m the one being hysterical. I just proposed a view you don’t want to hear. Calmly and politely. While you have raged on truly hysterically.
Stop trying to tell everybody else how their democracies ought to be. They get to have it any way they wish. Messy, unkempt, hard to decipher, and opposed to what you consider proper.
Because poor self government trumps judgemental foreign interference every freaking time. Just as soon as they’re begging you to come show them how to do it, you get to pass on your judgement. Till then let them muddle through and find their own way.
It’s just not that hard to understand, sheesh.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/72 "2016-01-02T01:47:56Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> **Qin** , you’re a pretty smart well-informed guy, but I wonder how much you know about elections in Thailand. In most of the villages near me, people are paid abvout a day’s wages or more for their vote whenever there’s a parliamentary election. _Banks and police are especially busy during the few days before an election._ “Canvassers” withdraw huge sums in small bills to pay voters. The piles of cash make it a dangerous time both for armed robbery and murder. Sometimes canvassers are murdered for their money; sometimes murdered by the politician for keeping the cash instead of distributing it to voters.
>
> In Western democracies, parties have names like Green, Socialist, Christian Democratic, etc., and corresponding platforms. In Thailand most of the parties are of the form Those\_on\_the\_Graft\_Train\_of\_Godfather\_A, Those\_on\_the\_Graft\_Train\_of\_Godfather\_B, Those\_on\_the\_Graft\_Train\_of\_Godfather\_S. When you look at the huge cost of the election – day’s wages for many or most rural voters, big payments between politicians – you can imagine what the agenda is once elected. :eek: As often as not, a Province’s crime bosses and members of parliament are the same people.
>
> But I can’t argue with Americans who think they know everything. At least Thailand, whatever its faults, hasn’t been subjugated to the purple-finger democracy blessing you bestowed on Iraq.
As I noted earlier, my main post wasn’t to debate the specifics of Thai politics but rather the _logic_ and _assumptions_ on which the shitlib **elbows** was arguing them.
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Yeah I’m the one being hysterical. I just proposed a view you don’t want to hear. Calmly and politely. While you have raged on truly hysterically.
See your post on the other thread-not only were you a hypocrite you were also seriously sperging out. Not to mention that this sort of “respectability politics” bullshit is just that-bullshit. It doesn’t matter if you type in that passive aggressive manner of yours and I TYPE IN ALL CAPS or use a fucking expletive every other fucking word since obviously you are just using that to shut debate down.
> [@](#):
>
> Stop trying to tell everybody else how their democracies ought to be. They get to have it any way they wish. Messy, unkempt, hard to decipher, and opposed to what you consider proper.
And as I and others have been saying not having freedom of speech means you are a liberal democracy. Again you provide no fucking evidence as to why you think that this reflects the wishes of the Thais and again you contradict yourself from your earlier thread where you were sperging out about the supposed opinions (unsurprisingly wrong) of the majority of Americans.
> [@](#):
>
> Because poor self government trumps judgemental foreign interference every freaking time. Just as soon as they’re begging you to come show them how to do it, you get to pass on your judgement. Till then let them muddle through and find their own way.
>
> It’s just not that hard to understand, sheesh.
So who was advocating foreign interference, my dear Orientalist, shitlib friend? You are the one who is literally making judgements about the political preferences of entire continents in a single post.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/73 "2016-01-02T01:49:20Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> _ **America: Get your own house in order before criticizing others.** _
So I guess the frogs have no right to complain about TRUMP or the Iraq War as long as the FN is leading in the polls?
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/74 "2016-01-02T02:52:10Z")
Okay, just this once. By what I have learned in this thread about the imperious imperialism of the King of Siam, America’s got its house in order by comparison. And **Qin** is right about **elbows** sounding like an old Orientalist rattling his cane at his London club. Pretty funny.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/75 "2016-01-02T04:22:53Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> So much ignorance to fight. So little time. 😃
You’ve made this assertion before and you were wrong then. Just because you have this fetish that the Thai monarchy is so wonderful does not mean that those who do not share your delusion are ignorant.
> [@](#):
>
> I like to understand motives.
This is your new strategy, going to motive instead of to the underlying issue itself? The military’s motive is that they want to govern so they are governing. They have the might and they’ve been using it. Their motive is they wish to continue using that might.
> [@](#):
>
> _ **Why** _ is the military clamping down on drunk driving? Is it acting out of greed or malice? Or is it trying sincerely to serve the public interest?
So the military sincerely believes they’re serving the public interest. Isn’t that their rationale for taking over the government in the first place? Yeah, and what happens to the members of the public who question them about it? “Attitude adjustment” seems to be the answer, at a minimum.
> [@](#):
>
> Go to the table at [the Wikipedia page on traffic deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate) and sort it by total fatalities last year. It may come as no surprise that the top eight countries in that list are essentially just the eight highest-population countries in the world permuted. (Nigeria is only 7th in population but is 3rd by traffic deaths. The U.S. is 3rd in population, but only 6th by traffic deaths.)
>
> But now look at the ninth country in the list. Is it Mexico? Egypt? Any of the other large-population countries? No. The country in ninth place for most traffic deaths is the Kingdom of Thailand. (The figure shown is for 2010 compared with 2012 for Russia. Thailand is probably in 8th place with up-to-date numbers.)
>
> _ **Traffic accidents are a very real problem in Thailand.** _ This may not be obvious to Pattaya visitors, or in Bangkok where the Traffic Jam inhibits speed, but rural roads are a bloodbath. _ **The junta’s crackdown on drunk driving is addressing a real problem.** _
And that has nothing to do with the simple fact that the military illegally took over the government, that the monarchy is a joke for allowing that to happen over and over again.
> [@](#):
>
> Do the detractors think the junta has some greed motive?? Kickbacks from the company that makes breathalyzers??? I can assure the manufacturers of beer and whiskey have far more money to bribe with. 🙂
Where are you pulling this nonsense from? Nobody’s said anything at all like that. The issue is that the military is arresting people and punishing them without trial. The people arrested have no recourse.
> [@](#):
>
> I won’t defend every detail of government policy here.
Oh, you’re not defending every detail, but you are excusing the abuse of human rights perpetrated by the military.
> [@](#):
>
> Quite to the contrary, those of us who live in rural Thailand and see first-hand the quality of schools and other institutions are well aware that incompetence is a major problem. Thailand has progressed in important ways during recent decades but still has far to go.
>
> And I agree that the threat of vehicle confiscation seems excessive.
Asset forfeiture, not vehicle forfeiture. The military is threatening to confiscate the assets. That can be anything.
And you say it seems excessive? Of course it’s excessive! It’s done without a trial, the person accused has no recourse.
> [@](#):
>
> But two points:
> (A) The bark will be bigger than the bite. I don’t expect to see a lot of cars confiscated except in egregious cases.
septimus for prophet!
> [@](#):
>
> (B) Law enforcement in the United States of America has been seizing cash and other assets _even with no court order or criminal conviction._
Law enforcement in the United States has been doing that pursuant to laws passed by a legislature, not by an order issued by some general who took over the lawful government because he [del]didn’t like the government[/del] “sincerely believed” he could do a better job of governing.
> [@](#):
>
> _ **America: Get your own house in order before criticizing others.** _
Perhaps you should fix everything wrong in your life before you whine about other’s comments. Look, I am not America. I am one peson, expressing my personal opinion about an abusive regime in a country that I happen to like. I am not alone in holding this opinion and there are even Thais who dislike the current regime. You can pretend all the day long that I am ignorant of Thailand, but you will still be wrong.
Again: the military is abusing the Thai populace and the military knows the monarchy is a joke. What the military is doing is using the monarchy as an excuse to cow the dissenting popoulace.
You must be so proud of yourself to defend that.
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/76 "2016-01-02T04:29:09Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> The military government cannot be evaluated in a vacuum. It came into existence to replace the government of Yingluk Shinawatra. The Yingluk government was an absolute travesty of corruption and incompetence. It would be hilarious if it hadn’t caused so much financial damage to the Kingdom. Even the Great Flood of 2011 can be partly blamed on Yingluk incompetence.
You do realize there was a constitutional method of dealing with that? I don’t recall the vacated constitution saying “the government elected by the people will be replaced whenever the military decides it’s time for the military to take over”.
> [@](#):
>
> I’ve seen no one in the thread defend the corrupt government that the junta deposed. I doubt if any are stupid enough to try. Yet how can it make sense to condemn this change of government when it was for the better?
I condemn the military for their abuse of human rights in Thailand. You’re the only one here being stupid by defending that system.
> [@](#):
>
> Democracy is good. Free elections are good. But let’s not let these trite observations blind us to the practical realities of real countries which have not developed a Western system with Western values.
You and elbows should write a book together.
> [@](#):
>
> The present crisis in Iraq is partly due to the naive belief in purple-finger democracy; that 51% should dictate to the 49%. _How did that work out for all y’all in Iraq?_
So you’re happy to defend any dictatorship? Nice, that.
> [@](#):
>
> Thailand needs to progress before we can expect good results from elections. Better education, better journalism, and better enforcement of laws against vote-buying are needed.
Here’s a nifty way for them to progress: the military not take over the government.
> [@](#):
>
> In the meanwhile, we hear Americans whine about lack of elections. In the same country, no less, where one Party brags about placing obstacles against voting by undesired voters.
You don’t happen to realize that there are Americans who also complain about that. But, hey, facts aren’t your strong suit, apparently.
> [@](#):
>
> _ **America: Get your own house in order before criticizing others.** _
What about those of us who also criticize stuff in America? Do we have your permission to complain about the illegal and abusive junta in Thailand?
---
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/77 "2016-01-04T15:42:39Z")
> [@Monty](#):
>
> > [@septimus](#):
> >
> > I like to understand motives. _ **Why** _ is the military clamping down on drunk driving? Is it acting out of greed or malice? Or is it trying sincerely to serve the public interest?
> >
> > … But now look at the ninth country in the list. Is it Mexico? Egypt? Any of the other large-population countries? No. The country in ninth place for most traffic deaths is the Kingdom of Thailand. (The figure shown is for 2010 compared with 2012 for Russia. Thailand is probably in 8th place with up-to-date numbers.)
> >
> > _ **Traffic accidents are a very real problem in Thailand.** _ This may not be obvious to Pattaya visitors, or in Bangkok where the Traffic Jam inhibits speed, but rural roads are a bloodbath. _ **The junta’s crackdown on drunk driving is addressing a real problem.** _
>
> Oh, you’re not defending every detail, but you are excusing the abuse of human rights perpetrated by the military.
😕 Are you aware of the human rights abuses under the “democratically elected” Thaksin government? The extra-judicial executions with Governors competing for most killings? The massacres of Muslim protestors in the South?
I think we all condemn human rights violations. It’s just that you’re too ignorant to realize **such violations were worse under your “democratically elected” darling Thaksin than under any other recent regime.**
And unwilling to grasp that a successful crackdown on bad driving would be a major achievement. The danger of the roads is my 2nd biggest complaint about life here (summer heat is #1). I’m reminded of this by an [accident that happened _just a few hours ago_ at an intersection my family frequently passes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGEuLj07Kew). I’m always nervous when my wife drives up there alone.
But no, you’re more interested in whether Thailand conforms with your American values, than the 1000s slaughtered on our highways.
> [@Monty](#):
>
> I condemn the military for their abuse of human rights in Thailand. You’re the only one here being stupid by defending that system.
If _I’m_ the one smart enough to know that half-moldy bread is more nutrituous than dogshit then _I’m_ the one that’s stupid? 🆒
…
> [@Monty](#):
>
> So you’re happy to defend any dictatorship? Nice, that.
I don’t defend every dictatorship. But I’m adult enough to understand that deposing the dictator Saddam the way the U.S. did turned out badly. I’m aware enough to realize that military governments are not always as corrupt as the civilian governments they depose. Try actually thinking sometime, instead of relying solely on black-and-white kindergarten labels.
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/78 "2016-01-09T00:22:25Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> 😕 Are you aware of the human rights abuses under the “democratically elected” Thaksin government? The extra-judicial executions with Governors competing for most killings? The massacres of Muslim protestors in the South?
Yes. Are you aware that there was a way to address those issues instead of having the military just take over the country?
> [@](#):
>
> I think we all condemn human rights violations.
Apparently you don’t. See below.
> [@](#):
>
> It’s just that you’re too ignorant to realize **such violations were worse under your “democratically elected” darling Thaksin than under any other recent regime.**
Once again: quit making up stuff about me.
> [@](#):
>
> And unwilling to grasp that a successful crackdown on bad driving would be a major achievement.
You are a liar and a bad liar at that. I did not say that a successful crackdown on bad driving would be a bad thing. What I addressed were the simple facts with the regime you’re kowtowing to: arrest and incarceration without trial, extortion or at the least threat of extortion to gain freedom. This is just part of what you’re defending.
Note for the intelligence-impaired (that would be you): I think practically every government Thailand has had in centuries has been horrible, yet the kings have supposedly supported those governments.
> [@](#):
>
> The danger of the roads is my 2nd biggest complaint about life here (summer heat is #1). I’m reminded of this by an [accident that happened _just a few hours ago_ at an intersection my family frequently passes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGEuLj07Kew). I’m always nervous when my wife drives up there alone.
>
> But no, you’re more interested in whether Thailand conforms with your American values, than the 1000s slaughtered on our highways.
You’re still a bad liar. It’s not “American values” to expect a government to follow its own constitution. This, of course, refers to the previous government back when Thailand did have a constitution.
But, of course, Thailand doesn’t really have a legal government. The king, supposedly, gave his mandate to the previous government, and then the military decided that they don’t like not being in charge and took over. Obviously, the military knows full well that the king isn’t really a king and is, in fact, basically useless. Your moving the conversation away from that issue tends to show, to me at least, that you realize that also.
> [@](#):
>
> If _I’m_ the one smart enough to know that half-moldy bread is more nutrituous than dogshit then _I’m_ the one that’s stupid? 🆒
> …
Whatever it is you’re eating, you need to check it out to see what kind of hallucinogenics you’ve been consuming.
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t defend every dictatorship. But I’m adult enough to understand that deposing the dictator Saddam the way the U.S. did turned out badly.
Besides the fact that I am actually aware of that, that issue is completely irrelevant to the issue in this thread: the Thai king is a joke.
> [@](#):
>
> I’m aware enough to realize that military governments are not always as corrupt as the civilian governments they depose.
And where, exactly, did I say that?
> [@](#):
>
> Try actually thinking sometime, instead of relying solely on black-and-white kindergarten labels.
Quit being a liar. Also, I do not rely on “black-and-white kindergarten labels”.
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/79 "2016-02-22T22:19:37Z")
And in today’s news, [yet more proof the Thai royal family is a joke](http://mashable.com/2016/02/22/thai-princess-toilet/#cqBlC4ljVaqO):
> [@](#):
>
> Thai princess gets $40,000 toilet built for her 3-day visit to Cambodia
The article mentions that the princess requested this white elephant be built for her. And, lest you think that the commode could be of lasting benefit, a manager at Siam Cement Group had this to say:
> [@](#):
>
> Normal people can’t use a [royal] toilet.
The cited article states the toilet’s going to leave when the princess does.
---
### Author:  [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/monty-what-if-anything-is-your-point-about-thailands-royals/730818/80 "2016-02-22T22:23:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Normal people can’t use a [royal] toilet.
How fucking complicated to use can a toilet possibly be?
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