# Moon Landings: why is there no dust in the lander pads? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 9, 2008, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812 "2008-07-09T08:44:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/21 "2008-07-09T11:08:47Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Going to the moon was wild speculation at one point! šŸ˜› [/QUOTE] The existance of the moon was never a matter of speculation. Youā€™re confusing whether it is possible something existed in the past or present, with whether it would be posible to do something in the future. The two are very, very different. To see whether something exists or existed in the past, you need evidence. To see whether something may be done, you have to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/22 "2008-07-09T11:10:29Z")
It _neednā€™t have been_ utter bollocks. I mean, governments _are_ capable of deceiving the public, and willing to do it sometimes. It just _happens to be_ the case that the moon landing conspiracy theory _is_ utter bollocks, not helped by vapid, moronic sensationalist TV programs on the subject (FOX, Iā€™m looking at you). ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/23 "2008-07-09T11:12:55Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Yes, as were a far larger number of other things that turned out to be nonsense. _ **Wild speculation** _ may well be a productive tool in creating potential innovation, but as a means of examining historical fact, it performs very poorly indeed. [/QUOTE] Dammit, thatā€™s what I was goint to change my user name to. Back to the drawing board. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/24 "2008-07-09T11:17:34Z")
[QUOTE=nd\_n8] Dammit, thatā€™s what I was goint to change my user name to. Back to the drawing board. [/QUOTE] Donā€™t you want to be a productive tool then? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/25 "2008-07-09T11:19:19Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Okay, I agree. The ā€˜fake space raceā€™ idea is utter bollocks! _leaves thread, shamefaced_ [/QUOTE] Hey, donā€™t be embarrassed! At least you came with the idea of doing research and listening to smart people. Thatā€™s a long way from starting a thread just to shout something ridiculous, keep shouting, loudly insist youā€™re right, and not learn. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/26 "2008-07-09T11:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Donā€™t you want to be a productive tool then? [/QUOTE] If heā€™s anything like me, he is probably just happy being a general tool. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/27 "2008-07-09T11:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] If you are looking for a reason why major governments would fake a ā€˜space raceā€™, how about the recovery of an alien space craft, 20 years previously? Do you think that would/could be justification( from a governments POV.) for attempting such an elaborate hoax? [/QUOTE] How exactly would that be justification. (And for that matter, if we had alien space craft technology, why wouldnā€™t we use it to _go to the Moon_? Though apparently all those things do is make crop circles and then crash.) ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/28 "2008-07-09T11:31:34Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] How exactly would that be justification. (And for that matter, if we had alien space craft technology, why wouldnā€™t we use it to _go to the Moon_? Though apparently all those things do is make crop circles and then crash.) [/QUOTE] Iā€™ve already admitted my argument is unfeasible, but I still believe the finding of such a craft would inspire extraordinary levels of deception from the authorities, had it happened. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/29 "2008-07-09T11:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Donā€™t you want to be a productive tool then? [/QUOTE] In many ways, I am already a productive tool. [QUOTE=Alessan ] The existance of the moon was never a matter of speculation. Youā€™re confusing whether it is possible something existed in the past or present, with whether it would be posible to do something in the future. The two are very, very different. To see whether something exists or existed in the past, you need evidence. To see whether something may be done, you have to do it. [/QUOTE] Wait. What? I mean, I understand what youā€™re getting at but I fail to see the context. Iā€™m sure that going to the moon has been a point of speculation for quite some time, just as journeying to the center of the earth or what exactly is that jelly-like substance in spam. All good points for speculation and discussion around a cold one at a local tavern, or over some coffee at a truck stop lunch counter. Once it was done however, the conversation turned from ā€œCan we do it or notā€ to ā€œDid we do it or notā€. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/30 "2008-07-09T11:33:33Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] And for that matter, if we had alien space craft technology, why wouldnā€™t we use it to _go to the Moon_? [/QUOTE] Because the Nazis keep shooting our ships down from their Moon Base, silly ! Ever since they got up there in the 40ā€™s with _their_ recovered alien space craft. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/31 "2008-07-09T11:36:49Z")
In regards to the OP: when you picture it in your mind, donā€™t imagine the dust roiling around in little clouds like it would on Earth (in an atmosphere). Instead, imagine the rocket exhaust hitting the Lunar regolith and expanding outward, carrying dust particles outward; by the time the footpads touched down, there probably wasnā€™t any loose dust left in the immediate vicinity. And the dust wouldnā€™t roil around in little clouds like on Earth; itā€™d simply be blown outward by the exhaust, which would rapidly attenuate, and then would describe a ballistic trajectory through vacuum and hit the ground. None of the particles would be coming back to the area of the footpads. Why isnā€™t there a movie called _Nazis on the Moon!_? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/32 "2008-07-09T11:38:37Z")
[QUOTE=nd\_n8] I mean, I understand what youā€™re getting at but I fail to see the context. Iā€™m sure that going to the moon has been a point of speculation for quite some time, just as journeying to the center of the earth or what exactly is that jelly-like substance in spam. All good points for speculation and discussion around a cold one at a local tavern, or over some coffee at a truck stop lunch counter. Once it was done however, the conversation turned from ā€œCan we do it or notā€ to ā€œDid we do it or notā€. [/QUOTE] The future is always a matter of speculation, until it happens. The poster I was responding to was comparing speculation concerning something that may have happened in the past - the landing of an alien spacecraft some 20 years earlier - with speculation about the future of space travel. My claim was that these are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/33 "2008-07-09T11:42:57Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Because the Nazis keep shooting our ships down from their Moon Base, silly ! Ever since they got up there in the 40ā€™s with _their_ recovered alien space craft. [/QUOTE] No, the Nazis donā€™t have a recovered alien space craft, they have a recovered holy artifact. Theyā€™re using ancient Hebrew technology against our alien technology. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/34 "2008-07-09T11:46:32Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] The future is always a matter of speculation, until it happens. The poster I was responding to was comparing speculation concerning something that may have happened in the past - the landing of an alien spacecraft some 20 years earlier - with speculation about the future of space travel. My claim was that these are two different things. [/QUOTE] Ahh, I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/35 "2008-07-09T11:49:40Z")
[QUOTE=nd\_n8] No, the Nazis donā€™t have a recovered alien space craft, they have a recovered holy artifact. Theyā€™re using ancient Hebrew technology against our alien technology. [/QUOTE] Well, they _were_, until their faces melted. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/36 "2008-07-09T11:53:57Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] Why isnā€™t there a movie called _Nazis on the Moon!_? [/QUOTE] Well, thereā€™s always _Starship Troopers_. ---
**Author:** ![where\_s\_the\_subscription\_info](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8e8cbc/32.png) [@where\_s\_the\_subscription\_info](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/where_s_the_subscription_info)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moon-landings-why-is-there-no-dust-in-the-lander-pads/455812/37 "2008-07-09T11:55:02Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] And skimming the Bad Astronomy article on this, I noticed this additional point I hadnā€™t thought of : So, not as much dust as you think is going to be moved in the first place. [/QUOTE] I can see why a ā€˜whiteā€™ over-exposed subject would block out a black lineā€¦ But the pads have ABSOLUTELY NO DUST IN THEM after a rocket blast [with the rough equivalent of 1/6th of the power needed to hold a light helicopter up on earth? I figure the lander weighs approx = ā€˜a light heliā€™ and the moons gravity = 1/6th of earths] So imagine a 1/6th scale heli landing atop of a parking lot full of talc. (talcum powder, right? not sand grains or small gravel) Or take a full light heli and imagine 1/6th of the resulting dust storm. I just canā€™t believe that it would ALL be blown up, up and away and that none is going to get pulled down by that 1/6th gravity of the moon. The pads being literally ā€˜spotlessā€™. .. they donā€™t appear to have trace amounts!! May I remind people, space may be a vacuum but a planet still has gravity. šŸ™‚ .. and by the way, the guy from the bad atrology site is struggling for answers just like ā€˜usā€™, quote: _ā€œNote added December 6, 2001: Originally in this section I said that the engines also cut off early, before the moment of touchdown, to prevent dust from getting blown around and disturbing the astronautsā€™ view of the surface. This was an incorrect assertion; it was known that dust would blow around before the missions were launched, and steps were taken to make sure the astronauts knew their height above the surface. Anyway, the incorrect section has been removed.ā€_ > **[Links - Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Bad TV](http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html#crater)** > > \