# moonshot925 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747 "2012-09-15T00:27:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/181 "2012-09-25T18:24:10Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Do you know Tom Perry? He was the skipper of that boat. I was onboard from 2004-2007. The COs during that period were Casciano (don’t remember spelling- he was gone very quickly), Oxholm, Brennan (temporary CO after the previous CO was fired for a collision), and Jablon. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/182 "2012-09-25T18:26:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It is closer (though the tonnage is different yet again; perhaps the tonnage was not the same for every single missile door?). It’s also the most straight-forward way to say those things, as far as I can tell. When you look at what he snipped, it becomes really, really blatant. Movie version: > [@](#): > > The key-operated switches were 12 feet apart, so it was impossible for one person to turn both. > > The commander and deputy both had turn keys within two seconds of each other or the launch sequence would not happen. Book version: > [@](#): > > _…both officers had to turn their launch keys in unison. Because the launch switches were 12 feet apart, it was impossible for one person to turn both keys at once._ And so it continues… > [@](#): > > …additionally, the final command to launch also required another outside “vote” (two missileers performing the same procedure at another Launch Control Center). > [@](#): > > _…the final command to launch also required another “vote” (two missileers performing the same procedure at another Launch Control Center in the missile field) from outside of Delta One._ Personally, I think the fact that he used a parenthetical to communicate exactly the same information as the book makes it pretty obvious, but the last bit makes it damning: > [@](#): > > _…explosive gas generators would push open the 110-ton blast doors covering the silos and the Minuteman missiles would streak toward the sky. Then the “MISSILE AWAY” lights would illuminate on the commander’s console._ > [@](#): > > Explosive gas generators would then push open the 90-ton launch doors covering the ten Delta Flight missile silos, and the nuclear-tipped Minutemen would begin streaking toward their targets half a world away. As each missile blasted from its silo, its upper umbilical cable would sever, triggering the MISSILE AWAY light on the commander’s control panel. Who talks like that? “Streak toward the sky”? It couldn’t be more obvious. Quite apart from that, he was explaining the failsafe system for Minuteman launches, in response to the following post: > [@Cheshire Human](#): > > Hey, no selection system is perfect, and the ‘gleefully eager’ can sometimes tone it down enough to pass for sane. That’s why there are procedures in place that require ‘presidential authorization codes’ and ‘two men on the switch’, neither of which can launch on his own. Gee, when the missile launch control sequence is performed correctly, the missiles launch? Why mention that unless you were copying it from a book and forgot what you were responding to? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/183 "2012-09-25T18:26:48Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Doesn’t have to be a word-for-word duplicate, per Post 168. > > Anyway, I’m fine with however people want to interpret his word choice. The point has been made, and I’ll leave it there. As a former serviceman with a somewhat uncommon and technical specialty, I may just be overly sensitive to accusations of lying about one’s service. Not that I’ve been accused of lying about it before- but I think it would make me feel pretty angry and wounded. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/184 "2012-09-25T18:27:51Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I skimmed the thread looking to see if the subject-troll was an example of Poe’s law or a Deep Cover Conservative. Instead, it’s merely clear that he’s faking some service background. :rolleyes: Well, putting moonshot aside (because he’s boring), it occurs to me that it might be kinda hard to prove _any_ personal qualification, since comparable information can always be found somewhere. Heck, I’ve been a Canadian Forces reservist for almost 23 years now, but if someone were to ask me military trivia, I’m almost certainly get it wrong because I have a bad memory for stuff like that, being more interested in the nuts-and-bolts of the job than the semi-secret ceremonies or trappings. Of course, at the same time, there are lapsed traditions _at my own unit_ that only I am familiar with because all the people who were members when I joined have since transferred out or retired. I suppose I could take it upon myself to teach all the new recruits the “Rickety Rackety Russ” song, but… nah. My point being that if someone wanted to accuse me of faking, it’d be hard to prove them wrong. moonshot might be a former missileer, or he might not… what does it matter when everything else he says (“Romney will get 400 electoral votes”, “we shoulda nuked China”, “_WarGames_ is a liberal fantasy”) is stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/185 "2012-09-25T18:28:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It is closer (though the tonnage is different yet again; perhaps the tonnage was not the same for every single missile door?). It’s also the most straight-forward way to say those things, as far as I can tell. 😕 Really? You think this: “The final command to launch also required another “vote” (two missileers performing the same procedure at another Launch Control Center…)” is likely to arise organically from two people independently? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/186 "2012-09-25T18:29:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > When you look at what he snipped, it becomes really, really blatant. Movie version: > > Book version: > > And so it continues… > Personally, I think the fact that he used a parenthetical to communicate exactly the same information as the book makes it pretty obvious, but the last bit makes it damning: > Who talks like that? “Streak toward the sky”? It couldn’t be more obvious. Quite apart from that, he was explaining the failsafe system for Minuteman launches, in response to the following post: > > Gee, when the missile launch control sequence is performed correctly, the missiles launch? Why mention that unless you were copying it from a book and forgot what you were responding to? Ok, you’ve convinced me that he took that phrasing from that source or another with the same phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/187 "2012-09-25T18:30:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > My point being that if someone wanted to accuse me of faking, it’d be hard to prove them wrong. moonshot might be a former missileer, or he might not… what does it matter when everything else he says (“Romney will get 400 electoral votes”, “we shoulda nuked China”, “_WarGames_ is a liberal fantasy”) is stupid? That’s pretty much exactly what I think. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/188 "2012-09-25T18:31:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As a former serviceman with a somewhat uncommon and technical specialty, I may just be overly sensitive to accusations of lying about one’s service. Not that I’ve been accused of lying about it before- but I think it would make me feel pretty angry and wounded. The point is this. When asked for his credentials, **moonshot925** posted an almost word-for-word cite from a book. Now, why would he need to do that, if he had the experience he claimed he did? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/189 "2012-09-25T18:31:37Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > 😕 > > Really? You think this: > > “The final command to launch also required another “vote” (two missileers performing the same procedure at another Launch Control Center…)” > > is likely to arise organically from two people independently? No, you’re right- that phrase almost certainly did not just spring from his memory- it came from some book or other source that used the same phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/190 "2012-09-25T18:32:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I was onboard from 2004-2007. The COs during that period were Casciano (don’t remember spelling- he was gone very quickly), Oxholm, Brennan (temporary CO after the previous CO was fired for a collision), and Jablon. Oh, Perry was CO in the 80s IIRC. Were you there when she collided with a Turkish Freighter? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/191 "2012-09-25T18:32:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ok, you’ve convinced me that he took that phrasing from that source or another with the same phrasing. Well, that’s pretty much what we’re saying. If he’d taken it from an Air Force training manual, he’d still be full of shit, because he insists it’s based on his own recollection (“The facilities technician crewdog told me that the doors were 110 tons.”) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/192 "2012-09-25T18:33:22Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > The point is this. When asked for his credentials, **moonshot925** posted an almost word-for-word cite from a book. Now, why would he need to do that, if he had the experience he claimed he did? I’ve pretty much given in, but if someone asked me something technical about submarines, and I didn’t recall it exactly, I might look it up to “jog my memory”. But I give in- the post in question came from the sources linked in follow-on posts, or some other source with the same phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/193 "2012-09-25T18:34:22Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Oh, Perry was CO in the 80s IIRC. > > Were you there when she collided with a Turkish Freighter? Yes. I was in the top-rack (top bunk of 3) at the time (it happened at around 3 in the morning, IIRC), and the impact almost tossed me out of bed. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/194 "2012-09-25T18:35:09Z")
I was enlisted late 80s, early 90s. Even with random selection, I was pissing in a cup at a minimum of every other month. I was clean, but plenty of discharges for recreational drug use, and I’m pretty sure missiles are not some special breed who never toked. One did not speak of it at work though. Too many ears, and like any workplace, too many petty, vindictive asses who would love to see someone booted. _IF_ there is any truth, moonshot, good Lil ultraconservative posted boy that he might be would probably never be near any such conversation. P.S. moonshot, there were also homosexuals in the command. Just because they didn’t openly discuss it doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. And there were also your compatriots always trying to out them. Sometimes succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/195 "2012-09-25T18:35:24Z")
[Gee, I wonder why someone might randomly capitalize “freighter”…](http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_091505_Perry,00.html) > [@moonshot925](#): > > Oh, Perry was CO in the 80s IIRC. > > Were you there when she collided with a Turkish Freighter? Oh, sweet Jesus. If it wasn’t for **El Kabong** we might still be actually responding to him. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/196 "2012-09-25T18:48:43Z")
The biggest tell that moonie is full of buffalo feces is the firearm thing. Movies love to show everyone armed, but it just isn’t true. Especially on airbases. Not only was no one armed except the SP, no one was trained. Most fired the requisite 50 rounds or so from a Vietnam-era M-16 during basic and that’s it. Even if we were attacked (and remember I was on an intelligence base), there was no armory for us to run to and arm ourselves. But there were plenty of cricket bats if things got really dire. Now those things were real dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/197 "2012-09-25T18:55:30Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I grew up in Newport RI, a Navy town, and had several friends who’s parents served at the base and I remember when watching that as a kid, one of the fathers, who’d served aboard a nuclear submarine said he found the idea of the guys in the bunker being armed difficult to believe, though obviously he wasn’t Air Force and could have been wrong… FWIW, [this newsletter](http://www.afmissileers.org/newsletters/NL2011/Dec11.pdf) (Pdf) from the Association of Air Force Missileers, at page 6, talks about the .38 pistols “that missile crews once carried.” (Aside, I thought the Air Force had revolvers with moon clips in either 9mm or .45 ACP, not .38? The things you learn…) I do not know if that implies that officers in a Launch Control Center do not now carry them, or if they carried them during the time of **moonshot** ’s stated service, or neither. Just adding a data point to the conversation. It seems like one more damned thing to have to inventory and follow a regulation about—not to mention utterly superfluous considering the Air Force security teams’ weaponry at the Missile Alert Facility and elsewhere—but it wouldn’t be the silliest thing I’ve read about the government. The following from the cite seems a good example of what being armed actually meant for the crews: > [@](#): > > We even had holsters (no pistols) in the missile procedures trainer, and had to wear them any time the scenario called for someone to be with us in the “control center.” Of course, the instructors or evaluators didn’t count, since they “weren’t really there.” We did give a crew member an error, though, if he forgot to put on the holster before letting a visitor in. A more tedious duty—even with the co-ed crews the USAF controversially debuted in the mid 1980s—is difficult to imagine. And to get to spend your 1/2 day of free time in a place like Minot, N.D or Great Falls, MT… Wheeeee. A good job for catching up on your reading, I guess. And at least nobody’s shooting at you. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/198 "2012-09-25T18:58:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Gee, I wonder why someone might randomly capitalize “freighter”…](http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_091505_Perry,00.html) > > Oh, sweet Jesus. If it wasn’t for **El Kabong** we might still be actually responding to him. To be fair, lots of people have really poor grammar and capitalization skills. That said, its far more common for people to not capitalize when they should be doing so. I have to admit being a bit surprised when I saw he’d capitalized “freighter” as well. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/199 "2012-09-25T19:00:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > _Wargames_? With Matthew Broderick and Whats-her-face, (the _chiquita_ that made me feel like a dirty old man thirty fucking years ago? _Mondo Pervo_). > > I don’t recall anybody in that movie saying anything about dope. Whatever planet that movie took place on, dope didn’t exist. Oh great, just when thread couldn’t get weirder. We get the troll want-to-be to mention weed _one_ time and what happens? Grandpa McPot is out of the woodworks like a shot lighting up a roach and telling us all of his reefer sex fantasies. I say it with love **luci**. Now put the bong down. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747/200 "2012-09-25T19:01:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > SSN-690. It was not a Trident boat. They didn’t let you have gum? No smoking, sure, I can understand, but sugarless gum? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moonshot925/634747.md?page=11)