# "moot" used incorrectly **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 12, 2002, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591 "2002-07-12T09:40:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DangerDan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@DangerDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangerDan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/1 "2002-07-12T09:40:08Z")
When the vast majority of people use the word “moot” in its adjective form, most commonly “a moot point”, they use it incorrectly. The word “moot” in adjective form is defined by Merriam-Webster as: ‘1 a : open to question : DEBATABLE b : subjected to discussion : DISPUTED’ Most folks take “moot point” to mean that there is no point in discussing it, but as we can see “moot” in this example does in fact mean it’s open to question or debate. So my question is: how did this happen, that practically everyone I know has a misunderstanding of this word? I can think of no other similar instance, of a word’s definition somehow being understood to be the opposite of its true meaning. Thanks, -Dan ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/2 "2002-07-12T09:44:46Z")
Probably from confusing the word “moot” with the word “mute.” ---
**Author:** ![Neptune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@Neptune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptune)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/3 "2002-07-12T09:45:46Z")
I entered moot into [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) and got this: > [@](#): > > mootness n. > Usage Note: The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students. Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to debate. But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to use the word to mean “of no significance or relevance.” Thus, a moot point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value. A number of critics have objected to this use, but 59 percent …f. > > Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition > Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. > Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/4 "2002-07-12T09:51:04Z")
Didn’t the moots invade Spain? Oh, wait, that was the moops. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/5 "2002-07-12T09:54:11Z")
It’s the same as saying ‘It’s accademic’ - it means there’s no point in discussing it because…there’s no point BEYOND discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![DangerDan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@DangerDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangerDan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/6 "2002-07-12T09:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\*Probably from confusing the word “moot” with the word “mute.” \*\* Actually, I have heard the reverse - someone say “it’s a mute point” when they clearly meant to say “moot” which in my opinion is incorrect to begin with (per my original post and subsequent follow-ups). Makes me nutty. Can you tell both my parents were English teachers?? ---
**Author:** ![DangerDan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@DangerDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangerDan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/7 "2002-07-12T09:55:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\*It’s the same as saying ‘It’s accademic’ - it means there’s no point in discussing it because…there’s no point BEYOND discussing it. \*\* …meaning - there is no point in discussing it, because we could discuss it all day and never arrive at a conclusion? Or am I still not following? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/8 "2002-07-12T09:57:45Z")
I’m charged with murder. My defence is that, although I shot my gun, the bullet didn’t hit the victim (i.e. he died from some other cause) or, if it did, I had a lawful excuse (I was acting in self-defence). The court finds, on the evidence, that my bullet never hit the victim. I am acquitted. No ruling is needed about whether the circumstances would have supported my argument about self-defence, so no ruling is made. Consequently the issue is still open to debate as an abstract question. From the point of view of the court, the point is moot, meaning “people can debate it one way or the other; it doesn’t matter to this case”. From the point of view of those discussing the issues the point is moot, meaning “we can debate it because the answer is still open for debate ; the court never ruled on it”. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/9 "2002-07-12T10:20:39Z")
**Michael Quinion** , the Cecil of English, over at [worldwideword](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-moo1.htm) has discussed this: > [@](#): > > Moot point is one of those phrases that once had a firm and well-understood meaning, but no longer does. > [snip] > It comes from the same source as meet and originally had the same meaning. In England in medieval times it referred specifically to an assembly of people, in particular one that had some sort of judicial function, > [snip] > So something that was mooted was put up for discussion and decision at a meeting - by definition something not yet decided. > [snip] > The confusion over the meaning of moot point is modern. It is a misunderstanding of another sense of moot for a discussion forum in which hypothetical cases are argued by law students for practice. Since there is no practical outcome of these sessions, and the cases are invented anyway, people seem to have assumed that a moot point means one of no importance. So we’ve seen a curious shift in which the sense of “open to debate” has become “not worth debating”. As always well researched, and well written. ---
**Author:** ![DangerDan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@DangerDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangerDan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moot-used-incorrectly/118591/10 "2002-07-12T10:29:13Z")
Wow, now THAT was a definitive answer. Thank you for posting it.