# MoP-ing up after the Cataclysm: Updated WoW General Discussion 8/22/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 22, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256 "2012-08-22T06:30:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/921 "2013-09-13T06:41:08Z")
In something of a strange twist, my shadow priest, despite being my #4 toon, has mysteriously emerged as the most powerful of all my 90s. Her iLvl is a bit behind both my human paladin and my rogue, but thanks to Power Word: Fortitude she has more health than any of my other toons. And on the Timeless Isle, she managed to amass over 5000 Timeless coins while only dying twice, compared to the countless deaths my paladin and rogue suffered. She’s blowing through mobs that severely tax my paladin and rogue. I’m also a bit frustrated that my paladin has finally reached iLvl 495 (she’s being held back by that 470 PvP weapon), _and she still hasn’t broken 400k health_. Do the devs think that melee DPS classes just don’t need hit points or something? Two patches ago she was already getting blown away in PvP by DKs boasting 560k health. Sure, those were Blood DKs, but you’d think that, two patches later, with all sorts of new and upgraded gear, she’d have more health than she did 2 patches ago. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/922 "2013-09-13T07:04:59Z")
You can probably score an ilvl 516 pve weapon by taking the quest to do a heroic scenario. I’ve done it on two characters, and both got a weapon from the reward cache thingy. My tankadin got a scimitar, and my mage got a wand. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/923 "2013-09-13T15:09:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You can probably score an ilvl 516 pve weapon by taking the quest to do a heroic scenario. I’ve done it on two characters, and both got a weapon from the reward cache thingy. My tankadin got a scimitar, and my mage got a wand. You have to get into your own arranged group for that, right? No LF Heroic Scenario thing? Lone wolves with dead guilds don’t get to play, I guess. And my hunter’s weapon is totally ridiculous. I may just have to start LFRing just to replace my silly ilvl 463 rifle. ETA: Well, I guess a few ilvl 476s drop from heroic 5-mans, so I guess I can farm those for a while, but it’d be only a slight upgrade, so I’m not convinced it would be particularly worth it as a farm attempt. Maybe if I actually enjoyed running heroic 5s it wouldn’t seem like such a chore. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/924 "2013-09-13T15:41:58Z")
As far as I know, there is no way to queue for a heroic scenario, but I see groups forming in /trade all the time. Only need three people, so groups are pretty easy to make. Tank/Healer/DPS is nice, but I’ve done them with three dps, too. Died a couple times, but got it done. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/925 "2013-09-13T15:45:46Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > You have to get into your own arranged group for that, right? No LF Heroic Scenario thing? > > Lone wolves with dead guilds don’t get to play, I guess. Yeah, my two Alliance guilds are just me and **Quasi** , and I rarely see anyone else on in the Burning Dog Legion. And, alas, most of the people on my very short friend lists — people I actually became in-game friends with — seem to be no longer playing the game. Plus, given that I still haven’t completed the majority of the _normal_ scenarios … Let’s see, all five of my 90s have done “Blood in the Snow” and “Dark Heart of Pandaria” so that they could do the Battlefield: Barrens quests; I ran the Theramore scenario pre-expansion on one Alliance toon (I thought I’d done it on more, but I was surprised when my paladin flew there and found it still standing, so I guess she didn’t); and I’ve run “A Little Patience” on maybe 2 Alliance toons, but didn’t do the equivalent one on my Horde paladin. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/926 "2013-09-13T17:59:31Z")
on my Orc marksman hunter: As **Geek Mecha** noted, I came into the zone geared kinda mediocre. Lots of welfare epics, like from Battlefield Barrens. Looting a lot of different types of chests in the zone pushed my ilvl up about 3 points… even with my trashy blue weapon continuing to depress the average. The fact that some of the Timeless welfare epics come with sockets is an even bigger plus than just the ilvl might indicate, since overally Timeless pieces are same ilvl as “Insurgent’s” (etc.) And forwarding the unbound extras to alts was a real bonus. Got my “free” [Burden of Eternity](http://www.wowhead.com/item=103982) from the [Blazing Chest](http://www.wowhead.com/object=221673) next to the Ordon Sanctuary. Being an engineer made it easy to get past the broken bridge (goblin glider), and being a hunter with camoflage made it easy to get past all the mobs to loot the chest. YMMV. I used that Burden to upgrade the Timeless mail pants I looted at the same time. I tried using it on the Timeless mail chest I was already wearing (after having “activated” it), but that didn’t work. So I tried it on the unactivated pants, and it did work. But I didn’t notice that I’d looted an unactivated mail chest, which is really what I would have wanted upgraded to ilvl 535. :smack: Oh, well. Maybe next Burden I find. Overpulls will kill very fast, similarly to earlier events. But there are new nuances, like how the little turtles will social aggro if you attack any turtle within aggro range… I had my pet die a few times because an elite big turtle’s spin-punt move put the fight into the midst of half a dozen little turtles, and they all added, and the additional inbound DPS outpaced my Mend Pet. ☹ Also, some critters fight unreasonably harder than others. I have to go pretty close to all-out to defeat one of the elite snakes before it kills my pet; otherwise, it consistently outdamages my healing and I have to solo down the snake’s last 5-10% of health. Getting chain stunned by multiple elite tigers pouncing is pretty close to the dictionary defintion of “suck”. 😃 Had pretty good luck with non-group group attacks on rares and rare elites. The big whale shark that circles the island can be a bitch, though; if you try to stay in engagement with him, you’ll wind up pathing through “fatigue” water long enough to kill you. However, he doesn’t look like he resets if you back off, so I’ll have to remember to do that next time. On a PvP server, the island is a pretty fun grind until one of the roving ultraviolence gangs of opposite-faction PvPers tears through the area you’re grinding. The fact that the zone has an actual PvP currency and interesting PvP rewards obviously encourages that behavior. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/927 "2013-09-13T22:01:06Z")
Respectfully, **gnoitall** , I find “welfare epic” unfair and don’t feel that ~480 ilvl gear is mediocre. Not all of us are raiders, but not all of us are slackers. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/928 "2013-09-14T05:24:51Z")
It occurs to me that I’m bit annoyed that I’ve spent VP to upgrade my 489 Battlefield: Barrens gear, only to have that gear quickly replaced with TI 496 gear. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/929 "2013-09-14T05:59:08Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I’m also a bit frustrated that my paladin has finally reached iLvl \*\*495 \*\*(she’s being held back by that 470 PvP weapon), _and she still hasn’t broken 400k health_… Okay, something is wrong here. My freakin’ sub rogue just achieved 399k health at iLvl **492**. My rogue has 399k health at 492, and my paladin has 399k health at iLvl 495. What’s wrong with this picture? ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/930 "2013-09-14T08:21:36Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Okay, something is wrong here. My freakin’ sub rogue just achieved 399k health at iLvl **492**. My rogue has 399k health at 492, and my paladin has 399k health at iLvl 495. Not all gear slots provide the same amount of stats, eg chest, legs and head is worth more than wrist and rings, but they affect the average ilvl the same. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/931 "2013-09-14T08:47:38Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > It occurs to me that I’m bit annoyed that I’ve spent VP to upgrade my 489 Battlefield: Barrens gear, only to have that gear quickly replaced with TI 496 gear. Yeah, Timeless Isle gear tokens are dropping like candy from a pinata. My mage has almost a full set of the stuff that he can’t use, because most of his gear is that ilvl or higher, so I’m holding it for the upgrade tokens…which don’t seem to drop very often, or at all in his case. Also picked up 3-4 pieces for my druid, and a couple for my tankadin - neither of which have actually been to the Isle. Took the hunter to the Isle for a bit, and got about 3 pieces for him in under an hour. This appears to amount to a gear reset. From now on, every alt is going to have pratically a full set of ilvl496 or better gear as soon as they ding 90. That may kill the first tier of MoP raids. Not much point in running Vaults or Terrace of Endless Queue when you already have better gear than anything that drops there. Heroic dungeons are pointless now, other than valor farming–but who needs valor? Kinda sucks for people on their first 90, though. They’ll get slaughtered trying to do anything on the Isle without gearing up, and there probably aren’t going to be many lower level raids or heroic dungeons moving forward. I haven’t even seen anyone recruiting for world bosses since the patch dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/932 "2013-09-14T16:30:56Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Okay, something is wrong here. My freakin’ sub rogue just achieved 399k health at iLvl **492**. My rogue has 399k health at 492, and my paladin has 399k health at iLvl 495. > > What’s wrong with this picture? > [@Mogle](#): > > Not all gear slots provide the same amount of stats, eg chest, legs and head is worth more than wrist and rings, but they affect the average ilvl the same. Right, I realize that. But I guess I somehow had the idea that paladins got more hit points per point of STA than rogues did. But here’s the more detailed breakdown: [Eilyssana, ret paladin](http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightbringer/Eilyssana/advanced) Total STA: 18078 Total HP: 399495 [Theloise, sub rogue](http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alexstrasza/theloise/advanced) Total STA: 18075 Total HP: 399453 ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/933 "2013-09-14T17:34:12Z")
The real mystery here is why it says that your rogue has 603 base stamina. 😕 Your paladin only has 169 and my own pandaren rogue has 124. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/934 "2013-09-15T02:42:09Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > The real mystery here is why it says that your rogue has 603 base stamina. 😕 > Your paladin only has 169 and my own pandaren rogue has 124. That _is_ peculiar. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/935 "2013-09-15T06:52:14Z")
The rogue is getting the extra base stamina from mining; tanks get a % bonus to stamina, Ret is DPS. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/936 "2013-09-15T15:13:23Z")
> [@Reverse](#): > > The rogue is getting the extra base stamina from mining;. :smack: How did I forget that? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/937 "2013-09-16T18:38:30Z")
> [@Geek\_Mecha](#): > > Respectfully, **gnoitall** , I find “welfare epic” unfair and don’t feel that ~480 ilvl gear is mediocre. Not all of us are raiders, but not all of us are slackers. Agreed. I’m not hardcore in any fashion. This is my main I was describing. Frankly, I revel in my non-hardcoreness. I attach disrepectful terms like “welfare epic” to myself to taunt hardcores. It doesn’t matter to me, other than how much it seems to discomfit people who take the game too seriously. No offense intended to you, though. My gear is mediocre because this is just a game, not a lifestyle; if you feel the same way, I personally commend you on your not-screwed up priorities. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/938 "2013-09-16T18:47:52Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Yeah, Timeless Isle gear tokens are dropping like candy from a pinata. My mage has almost a full set of the stuff that he can’t use, because most of his gear is that ilvl or higher, so I’m holding it for the upgrade tokens…which don’t seem to drop very often, or at all in his case. Also picked up 3-4 pieces for my druid, and a couple for my tankadin - neither of which have actually been to the Isle. Took the hunter to the Isle for a bit, and got about 3 pieces for him in under an hour. Good point. I have only taken two toons to the Isle so far, but all my other 90s have a bizarre mix of quest greens and blues and ilvl 496 Timeless Isle pieces. (Except my DK. I dunno why I keep forgetting to mail him some of the plate drops; but my Arms warrior is a very happy mostly-purple dude now.) > [@](#): > > This appears to amount to a gear reset. From now on, every alt is going to have pratically a full set of ilvl496 or better gear as soon as they ding 90. That may kill the first tier of MoP raids. Not much point in running Vaults or Terrace of Endless Queue when you already have better gear than anything that drops there. Heroic dungeons are pointless now, other than valor farming–but who needs valor? Well, I find myself using the VP to upgrade stuff I’m sure I won’t be replacing right away, like the Timeless-enhanced (Burden of Eternity) pants I mentioned earlier. > [@](#): > > Kinda sucks for people on their first 90, though. They’ll get slaughtered trying to do anything on the Isle without gearing up, and there probably aren’t going to be many lower level raids or heroic dungeons moving forward. I haven’t even seen anyone recruiting for world bosses since the patch dropped. I hadn’t even thought about that. Yeah, that’s going to be brutal. Every encounter will risk death, even fighting non-elite trash mobs. You’d need very lucky drops, or grouping up with better-geared players, or pecking at the edges of boss-elite events to get a shot at loot. Or a certain bloody-minded willingness to accept dying a lot. (Which still happens anyway, no matter how well you’re geared.) ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/939 "2013-09-16T22:16:39Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Agreed. I’m not hardcore in any fashion. This is my main I was describing. > > Frankly, I revel in my non-hardcoreness. I attach disrepectful terms like “welfare epic” to myself to taunt hardcores. It doesn’t matter to me, other than how much it seems to discomfit people who take the game too seriously. > > No offense intended to you, though. My gear is mediocre because this is just a game, not a lifestyle; if you feel the same way, I personally commend you on your not-screwed up priorities. None taken, thanks for clarifying. Back when I used to 5-man and do BGs, I would overhear and read a lot of raiders just shitting all over any epics that weren’t raid drops. “Welfare epic” was a favorite phrase. It was one of many things that told me raiding wasn’t for me. These days I aim to get the best I can get as a solo player. [I think I’m doing well enough.](http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/medivh/Quickslant/simple) Having fun on Timeless Isle. I was lucky to get 4 Burdens of Eternity as drops, and have plumped my ilvl to 501. Yay! My new goal is to obtain 4-5 more Burdens somehow and then re-gem, re-reforge, re-enchant/augment, and upgrade everything x2 with Valor Points. I’m pretty sure that on my server people are using the Crag Stalkers and Primal Stalkers to MPK others. Three times now I have been in Kukuru’s teasure chest room when someone trained in 2-3 tigers, which then attacked me and other players as we stood there opening chests. At some point, the tigers would resume attacking the person that brought them in. One guy, who was also opening chests and I guess didn’t see that I’d been in the room before he arrived, was killed by the tigers, and called me a cunt before putting me on ignore. :rolleyes: I’m going to wait for this to happen again and verify it before I report it. I also think some Alliance players are intentionally flagging for PVP and then putting themselves front and center during rare mob kills so they can get more bloody coins. Twice now - once on Evermaw and once on Vazuvius - I’ve lost out on loot because I accidentally hit someone flagged for PVP and they promptly killed me. (I’m not sure how this happens. Do I lose loot if a player kills me but not if the mob does?) They’re super-quick to kill me too, which is why I think it’s intentional. It’s a PVE server, and I guess they’re doing whatever they can to get coins, but it’s still kind of a dick move. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256/940 "2013-09-17T07:35:34Z")
> [@Geek\_Mecha](#): > > Having fun on Timeless Isle. I was lucky to get 4 Burdens of Eternity as drops, What dropped them for you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mop-ing-up-after-the-cataclysm-updated-wow-general-discussion-8-22-12/632256.md?page=48)