# Moral dilemma - gambling related
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [June 15, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359 "2010-06-15T22:26:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/21 "2010-06-16T17:20:29Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#):
>
> This is what I was going to ask as well. I’m not very familiar w/ roulette but most games have some sort of “push” outcome. Possibly that’s what happened here?
While I have never played roulette in the UK, in the USA there is no possible “push” outcome in roulette.
You either win or lose on each spin, period.
---
### Author:  [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/22 "2010-06-16T17:27:57Z")
I said keep the money but thinking a bit on it have decided you should go to the manager and tell him.
Not for any moral reason. Just so you can enjoy seeing his jaw drop when you own up to what happened.
---
### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/23 "2010-06-16T18:15:45Z")
I voted for “keep the money” – not because of my low principles, but because I’m stony broke and the idea of getting several weeks’ worth of grocery money and _giving it back_ makes me feel ill. Of course, so does the idea of gambling, right now.
---
### Author:  [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/24 "2010-06-16T21:50:29Z")
> [@Quartz](#):
>
> Have you considered that there may have been some rule of which you were not aware that meant that the bet was deliberately left? And that therefore your win was legitimate?
Absolutely positive. Also, a friend of mine saw it all happen and corroborate the events.
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> While I have never played roulette in the UK, in the USA there is no possible “push” outcome in roulette.
>
> You either win or lose on each spin, period.
In actual fact, in this casino I have been surprised to have half my bet on “red” returned when the ball landed in the 0 slot. But this case was not like that; the ball landed in the 4 slot, so it was a definite loss.
> [@yojimbo](#):
>
> I said keep the money but thinking a bit on it have decided you should go to the manager and tell him.
>
> Not for any moral reason. Just so you can enjoy seeing his jaw drop when you own up to what happened.
I must admit that this is a not insignificant reason for wanting to take this option. The other day, I got on a bus with no cash on me, without realising my return ticket was not valid on that service, because although it was the same route as the one on which I bought the ticket, it was operated by a different company. The bus driver must have believed this was genuine as he let me ride anyway. When I got off the bus, I went to a cash machine, and then tried to buy a bus ticket back again, which I would not have used. The driver would not take the money, though.
> [@Nametag](#):
>
> I voted for “keep the money” – not because of my low principles, but because I’m stony broke and the idea of getting several weeks’ worth of grocery money and _giving it back_ makes me feel ill. Of course, so does the idea of gambling, right now.
I must also admit that any other option would not have crossed my mind had it been a losing night. I consider myself very lucky to even be in the position of considering it.
---
### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/25 "2010-06-16T21:59:20Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#):
>
> In actual fact, in this casino I have been surprised to have half my bet on “red” returned when the ball landed in the 0 slot. But this case was not like that; the ball landed in the 4 slot, so it was a definite loss.
I have NEVER, EVER, EVER heard of that happening in an American casino, and while I am not a huge roulette player, I have played a bit of roulette in casinos in Spain, Czech Republic, Germany and Netherlands and never heard of it happening in those countries as well…
I wonder now if the croupier recognized you as a regular and was trying to give you a bit of free ride on the casino?
---
### Author:  [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/26 "2010-06-17T02:02:19Z")
> [@StusBlues](#):
>
> I have real issues with casinos. I don’t go to them as they make a habit of barring players who do “too well” even when abiding by the rules. This strikes me as fundamentally unfair; if a casino wants to ensure the house advantage, they should just stop offering games like blackjack where skill can tip the odds toward the player. They have no problem taking thousands of dollars in player losses, but heaven forbid someone with great discipline beats them at their own game.
This is how I feel, too. Casinos are open to anyone who doesn’t win a lot. I don’t even really understand how that’s legal.
---
### Author:  [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/27 "2010-06-17T02:07:10Z")
You gambled on whether the dealer would notice, and you won!
---
### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/28 "2010-06-17T02:28:57Z")
EVER
---
### Author:  [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/29 "2010-06-17T12:06:54Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> I have NEVER, EVER, EVER heard of that happening in an American casino, and while I am not a huge roulette player, I have played a bit of roulette in casinos in Spain, Czech Republic, Germany and Netherlands and never heard of it happening in those countries as well…
>
> I wonder now if the croupier recognized you as a regular and was trying to give you a bit of free ride on the casino?
Just to be clear, the time I was given half my bet back was on a different occasion some time ago. I was very surprised, too - I still don’t know whether that was a one-off for that day, or standard practice at this casino. Still seems strange to me.
As to the dealer recognising me, while I do attend somewhat regularly, it’s rarely more than once a month, so hardly a regular compared with many people, so I think it’s unlikely enough to be discounted.
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#):
>
> This is how I feel, too. Casinos are open to anyone who doesn’t win a lot. I don’t even really understand how that’s legal.
IANAL, but it seems to me that it is a business and it can do what it likes (other than discriminating against a protected class. Winning gamblers are not a protected class.
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/30 "2010-06-17T13:45:34Z")
Of course you keep it. If you say something, the dealer will probably get in trouble. Do you want the man to lose his job?
---
### Author:  [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/31 "2010-06-17T16:00:09Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#):
>
> IANAL, but it seems to me that it is a business and it can do what it likes (other than discriminating against a protected class. Winning gamblers are not a protected class.
What if a store had a sale, and then threw out people who bought too many of the best sale items? I just don’t get how they can offer the same deal to everyone, and then say that people who are able to take advantage of their deal aren’t allowed to. And don’t get me wrong, I know that you have to win quite a lot for a casino to ban you. But it seems the principle of the matter is sort of a WTF deal.
---
### Author:  [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/32 "2010-06-17T16:27:50Z")
I think it’s basically stealing, but that wouldn’t stop me from keeping the money with a clear conscience. Certain institutions (casinos, credit card companies, etc.) have the odds stacked enough in their favor that it bothers me not one whit when they lose a bit of money they should otherwise have.
Now, certain proponents of absolute morality will tell you that stealing from Hitler is just as bad as stealing from Mother Teresa, stealing one penny is no different than stealing ten million dollars, etc. These people are stupid.
---
### Author:  [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/33 "2010-06-17T16:53:01Z")
The idea in a roulette game isn’t to pick the winning numbers, exactly. It’s to try to get some money from the casino. The casino’s job is to try to get money from you. If they fail to take your money, then they fail to win the roulette match. I say you won, fair and square. The croupier edited the rules for some reason and it allowed you to win.
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> I wonder now if the croupier recognized you as a regular and was trying to give you a bit of free ride on the casino?
That being said, I think this is probably what happened. The croupier was just giving you a free ride on purpose. Whether that’s due to a weird rule or he was comping you, it doesn’t matter.
---
### Author:  [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/34 "2010-06-17T17:15:45Z")
> [@Giraffe](#):
>
> I think it’s basically stealing, but that wouldn’t stop me from keeping the money with a clear conscience. Certain institutions (casinos, credit card companies, etc.) have the odds stacked enough in their favor that it bothers me not one whit when they lose a bit of money they should otherwise have.
>
> Now, certain proponents of absolute morality will tell you that stealing from Hitler is just as bad as stealing from Mother Teresa, stealing one penny is no different than stealing ten million dollars, etc. These people are stupid.
Hilarious and exactly right.
---
### Author:  [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/35 "2010-06-17T17:51:24Z")
I’m not going to tell you what to do, that’s up to you. However all the people saying that it’s an evil casino blah blah blah are 100% wrong. The casino offered a fair and reasonable service and got cheated. This is exactly the same as if you went to the supermarket and paid £100, but the clerk serving you got distracted and handed you back your money with your receipt. If you feel that walking out of Tesco with a free trolleyload of goods is A-OK then feel free to keep this £100.
---
### Author:  [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/36 "2010-06-17T20:02:57Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#):
>
> I’m not going to tell you what to do, that’s up to you. However all the people saying that it’s an evil casino blah blah blah are 100% wrong. The casino offered a fair and reasonable service and got cheated. This is exactly the same as if you went to the supermarket and paid £100, but the clerk serving you got distracted and handed you back your money with your receipt. If you feel that walking out of Tesco with a free trolleyload of goods is A-OK then feel free to keep this £100.
Not true at all. Very likely the clerk at Tesco would be docked £100. The casino money would not be missed by anyone. At all. Ever.
---
### Author:  [@dasgupta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasgupta)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/37 "2010-06-17T20:08:18Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> I have NEVER, EVER, EVER heard of that happening in an American casino, and while I am not a huge roulette player, I have played a bit of roulette in casinos in Spain, Czech Republic, Germany and Netherlands and never heard of it happening in those countries as well…
This is called _La Partage_ - when a 0 comes up, all even money bets (Red, Black, 1-18, 9-36) get back half of their money. I’ve seen it a few times in the UK. I also understand it’s used in some high-limit rooms on the Strip that have a single 0 wheel.
This is opposed to _En Prison_, where even money bets are imprisoned when the wheel turns up 0. If the bet wins on the next spin, you get your original bet back. Rules vary on what happens if you get another 0 - either you lose, or are “double imprisoned” and need two wins in a row to get your bet back. Also, some casinos allow changing your imprisoned bet to another even money wager.
As for my opinion to the OP, casinos make mistakes in both directions and they have no compulsion to rectify ones that are in their favor. For lower values, keep it and buy another drink.
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/38 "2010-06-17T20:16:45Z")
> [@Leaffan](#):
>
> Not true at all. Very likely the clerk at Tesco would be docked £100. The casino money would not be missed by anyone. At all. Ever.
Exactly.
I mean, it’s not as if they give receipts.
---
### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/39 "2010-06-17T21:46:48Z")
> [@dasgupta](#):
>
> This is called _La Partage_ - when a 0 comes up, all even money bets (Red, Black, 1-18, 9-36) get back half of their money. I’ve seen it a few times in the UK. I also understand it’s used in some high-limit rooms on the Strip that have a single 0 wheel.
>
> This is opposed to _En Prison_, where even money bets are imprisoned when the wheel turns up 0. If the bet wins on the next spin, you get your original bet back. Rules vary on what happens if you get another 0 - either you lose, or are “double imprisoned” and need two wins in a row to get your bet back. Also, some casinos allow changing your imprisoned bet to another even money wager..
Info like this is why I love SDMB—I mean where else are you gonna learn obscure trivia like this???
I would bet (heh) that there are many casino workers who have never heard of these terms, let alone the average weekend gambler—Thank you dasgupta!!!
---
### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359/40 "2010-06-17T22:08:35Z")
I say either tell a manager or keep it.
Gambling it away is stupid, and is no better than what you _already_ did, using the casino’s money to buy another spin of the roulette wheel. Donating it to charity is morally no better than just keeping it, since you’d only be doing it because it’s not your money that you’re giving away.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-gambling-related/543359.md?page=3)