# Moral Dilemma II: did he go overboard this time? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 7, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937 "2004-02-07T02:54:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/1 "2004-02-07T02:54:34Z")
Early in December, I posted [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=227886) about an annoying brat who was poking fun of my ethnicity (or religion, whatever). I didn’t have any problems with him after I told him to shut up about it…until today. Until today, it could be easily argued that he went WAY too far with his taunt. Him: Discussing Mao Zedong with someone else Me: You know, he was pretty bad. Up there with Hitler [whether this is wrong or not is not the point of the thread, so don’t hijack please]. Him: Hitler had some good ideas. Stop being so Jewish. Also note that this was right in front of the teacher, but she just said “Not funny.” He smiled when he said it, so I don’t think he really hates Jews. But is that actually made me angry (as opposed to his other comments). However, I do have to consider that I would basically ruin his life if I did report him. He’s the overachiever type, and “suspended for anti-semitism” would not look good on his college application. So, once again, I’m not sure what I should do. Advise, please. ---
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/2 "2004-02-07T02:58:48Z")
> [@agiantdwarf](#): > > Until today, it could be easily argued that he went WAY too far with his taunt. That should be: Until today, it could be easily argued that he wasn’t really being too inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/3 "2004-02-07T04:07:38Z")
Well, if he had a better attitude, you wouldn’t **have** this dilemma. Not your fault if he looks bad if you report him, I’d say, especially as I am getting the impression this is not really a “one-off” occurence. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/4 "2004-02-07T05:13:26Z")
I’d start by asking for a meeting with **the teacher** , and her supervisor. Then ask: - why she failed to take action to issue consequences for the use of this anti-semitic language in the classroom? - does she think the school’s policies prohibiting hate speech don’t apply in her classroom? - does her permitting this to happen on a continuing basis indicate she agrees with such anti-semitic statements? - is she incapable of maintaining control in her classroom? - does she realize how much of a fuss the local Jewish Anti-Defamination League could make about this before a School Board meeting? Well…you might want to word them a bit more tactfully than this. But the points to get across are: - that she, as the teacher, is responsible for seeing that in her classroom all students are able to participate without facing bigoted “hate speech”, and - just saying “not funny” is an inadequate response. The goal is to get the teacher on your side, and to get her to take some action to protect you from this. That’s part of the job she’s paid to do, after all. You should not have to be the one doing something about this. And you should not have to be facing this alone, and feeling stressed out about what action to take, and how it might hurt this student. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/5 "2004-02-07T05:44:34Z")
Why don’t you just kick his ass? Sometimes it’s worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/6 "2004-02-07T06:07:20Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Why don’t you just kick his ass? Sometimes it’s worth it. I think I’m going to agree in a way. It could be he’s just seeing how far you can be pushed. You need to let him know you’ve been pushed as far as you’re gonna be. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/7 "2004-02-07T07:23:01Z")
**[t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net)**’s suggestions aren’t bad (although depending on how petty the teacher is, it could cause agiantdwarf to suffer in her classroom) but unfortunately, those sort of things would be taken more seriously coming from a parent than a student; kids aren’t nearly as scary to the administration as an angry parent or parents. I know my parents would have demanded a meeting like that on my behalf (since they did over one of my brother’s teachers) so I hope that Agiantdwarf’s would too. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/8 "2004-02-08T00:54:21Z")
> [@](#): > > However, I do have to consider that I would basically ruin his life if I did report him. He’s the overachiever type, and “suspended for anti-semitism” would not look good on his college application. > > So, once again, I’m not sure what I should do. Advise, please. He wants to get you riled up. He wants you to go tattling because then he can use your “oversensitivity” against you. Personally, I would not report him. It’s an offensive remark, but it really isn’t that easy to distinguish from a stupid joke. The worse that will happen is that the vice-principal will tell him to lay off on the Hitler humor around you. His life will NOT get ruined, but are you ready to face him after he gets scolded? He may stop making Jewish jokes, but he may start calling you “crybaby”. I’m not saying you don’t have the right to be bugged. I’ve been teased about my ethnicity too, and even on good days it can be annoying. But on the grand scheme of bullying and racial harrassment, this is kinda low on the list. It will be hard convincing the authorities that you are really offended and that they should do something. The next time he says something crazy, I would just say, in your meanest voice, “Why don’t you shut the fuck up?” I’ve done it before. It works, especially if you’re normally slow to anger. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/9 "2004-02-08T02:53:50Z")
I agree- vile as his comment was, no school administrator will consider it suspension-worthy. Let it go; some people are just douchebags. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/10 "2004-02-08T04:52:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d start by asking for a meeting with the teacher, and her supervisor. > > Then ask: > . . . mmm? Why? Unless this kid has a history of making similar comments _in front of the teacher_, then the teacher’s response looks just about right. Smartass kid makes stupid comment that is certainly provocative but is not explicitly derogatory and the teacher indicates that the comment is out of line. If the teacher is ignoring many similar taunts, then I think that a conference would be in order (although I would do it through channels: first the teacher, alone; then the teacher with a superior; finally the superintendent or school board). The kid’s comment is simply stupid, anyway. **agiantdwarf** was not trying to expound a “my history is worse than your history” comment that invited one-up-manship, but was saying that even someone who did not persecute Jews could be considered pretty horrible. Claiming that **agiantdwarf** ’s statement was “being Jewish” is simply meaningless blather demonstrating the lack of wit with which the kid is equipped. Since the whole point of the kid’s remarks appears to be to get a rise out of **agiantdwarf** , I’d say that the best path would be to ignore him. Nothing frustrates these jerks as much as letting their dumb statements fall flat, while everyone around begins to look at them as if the are too stupid to live. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/11 "2004-02-08T06:07:36Z")
I do not think this is an incident that should just blow over. If it is indeed intended to get a rise out of **agiantdwarf** , then whatever this jerk does next will be the first offense in his record, right? I would be much happier if I could go to the administration: “I’d like to file a complaint on Johnny Stupid, please. I don’t want anybody to punish him or to have my name come up, because I don’t want to have to deal with him, but I think behavior like this should be documented and put in his record. My teacher heard it, too, so maybe she would help me make a record of this offense and my name won’t have to come up.” If the administration agrees, they then have a record of a student’s behavior that can be used as a history for whatever this jerk does _next_. After all, he’s done this before. The next person that he lashes out against might not be as understanding as you are: and next time, he might not stop with words. ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/12 "2004-02-08T06:47:24Z")
[Don’t let it go.](http://www.bdp.it/~psps0001/studenti/olocausto/immagini/Auschwitz%20cremazione%20all'aria%20aperta.jpg) Kick his ass, report him, whatever. But don’t let it go. ---
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/13 "2004-02-08T14:42:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Smartass kid makes stupid comment that is certainly provocative but is not explicitly derogatory I’m not sure what you mean by this. What part of “Stop being so Jewish” isn’t explicitly derogatory? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/14 "2004-02-08T14:49:49Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Smartass kid makes stupid comment that is certainly provocative but is not explicitly derogatory and the teacher indicates that the comment is out of line. “Stop being so black.” Is “Not funny.” all that needs to be said. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/15 "2004-02-08T14:54:14Z")
I’d go the Hollywood route - become class valedictorian and deliver a speech that rips in to all of them in public. Catch the el cheapo Aussie movie _The Rage In Placid Lake_ for an idea. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/16 "2004-02-08T20:15:32Z")
> [@](#): > > What part of “Stop being so Jewish” isn’t explicitly derogatory? Do you find being Jewish (or being perceived to be Jewish) an insult? Why? He did not make an _explicitly_ derogatory comment about Jews. The phrase was clearly intended as an insult, but it hardly qualifies as derogatory in the way of an _explicit_ statement such as “You Jews always try to look like victims” (which would have been derogatory and ass-backwards to your statement). He did not claim that you (or Jews) are greedy. He did not claim that you (or Jews) are planning world domination. He told you to not act Jewish (whatever that means) and made himself look like a fool since you were not “playing victim” to begin with. > [@](#): > > “Stop being so black.” > > Is “Not funny.” all that needs to be said. IF this was the first incident in which a teacher heard the kid make such a comment, AND the kid was obviously trying to be funny (and simply looking stupid in the process), AND there was not already a pre-existing condition of really bad racial/ethnic/religious tensions in the school, Then, yes, “Not funny” is all that needs to be said. Single comments by socially awkward twerps do not require the same level of response as deliberate (or persistent) attacks that are intended to intimidate or harrass another person. (While the OP has had problems with the twerp in the past, we do not yet have testimony that the twerp has been acting out in front of the teacher(s). In addition, if the twerp is obviously tailoring his comments to rile **agiantdwarf** , the issue is one of interpersonal conflict (which should be dealt with), but not “hate speech.”) If the twerp has said the same or similar things in front of the teacher on multiple occasions, each occasion should have evoked an increased level of response. Slamming twerps for gauche comments is equivalent to swatting gnats with sledgehammers–you _may_ get the gnat (or you may miss it), but you _will_ destroy a wall or a desk or something in the process. We are responding to a specific event. Individual events call for individual responses, otherwise we wind up with the sort of utter nonsense that “zero tolerance” and “three strikes and you’re out” laws produce, causing more harm than they alleviate. I see a twerp with no serious ethnic hatred (and no group of followers to spread the message) making an ass of himself by trying to find a phrase to get under **agiantdwarf** ’s skin. I do not see a campaign of terror and hatred. If **agiantdwarf** were black, Catholic, Baptist, red-haired, overweight, or “too” tall and the twerp hooked on any of those attributes, I would still see the teacher’s response as appropriate for any first occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/17 "2004-02-08T22:29:40Z")
Well, **tomndebb** , if the incident is repeated, do we treat that as an individual event also? Yes, I agree that this isn’t _terrible_. It’s not a hanging offense. It still may be only the first volley. I would feel much safer, personally, if I had some way to document or officially record the first event, preferably without making a huge fuss or punishing anyone. If there _is_ ever a second event, I wouldn’t want the first one forgotten. Don’t come down hard on the kid yet, but make sure if he does it again—under a different teacher’s nose, to a different student—that Someone knows this isn’t his first offense. Just my opinion, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/18 "2004-02-08T22:49:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, **tomndebb** , if the incident is repeated, do we treat that as an individual event also? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **tomndebb** :_ > If the twerp has said the same or similar things in front of the teacher on multiple occasions, each occasion should have evoked an increased level of response. Since I do not know the general culture of the school or its denizens, I am unwilling to set out specific actions that should be taken in the situation described. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/19 "2004-02-09T13:10:18Z")
Most schools havce a “no harrassment” policy. The kid is harrassing you. Report him. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937/20 "2004-02-09T13:38:56Z")
I’m with TomnDeb here. This moron’s comment, while crude, insensitive, boorish, nasty, etc., is not in and of itself evidence of neo-Nazi tendencies. The teacher’s response (assuming it’s the first time the teacher has heard such a remark) was appropriate. There would be nothing wrong (and a lot right) with the OP giving the lout a good dressing-down, however. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-ii-did-he-go-overboard-this-time/227937.md?page=2)