# Moral Dilemma (Loaning money you can afford to loan) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 8, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528 "2015-05-08T01:52:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/41 "2015-05-08T18:51:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The expired tags and title are still in the OP’s name. Letting your registration expire doesn’t magically make it not-yours. This is important. I doubt she has insurance, the car is legally yours, and you are liable if that car injures someone or destroys property. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/42 "2015-05-08T19:07:40Z")
I’d move to a better neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/43 "2015-05-08T19:22:22Z")
How much could she possibly owe the DMV that’s more than a $1,000 loan? All sounds shady to me. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/44 "2015-05-08T19:47:07Z")
Donate the car, but don’t expect a big tax write-off. I donated my Saturn of about the same age, also needed more work than it was worth, and got less than $1,000. How does she expect to buy any decent car for $1,000. Is she going to come back for just a little more? If she can’t get a car registered, how does she get her license renewed? You say she works. What does she do with the money she earns? If she earns so little that she can’t pay off the DMV (which would solve the problem) how can she pay for gas? How much does she owe, anyway? And, is the trouble with the car something that makes it unsafe? (No problem for a donation, they check on that.) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/45 "2015-05-08T20:15:13Z")
Anytime I hear, “outstanding warrants”, “Owes money to the DMV”, or “Bad Credit”, I immediately say to myself: Nope, this person ain’t getting my money. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/46 "2015-05-08T21:09:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The expired tags and title are still in the OP’s name. Letting your registration expire doesn’t magically make it not-yours. I understand that, but he’s been letting her drive it for five years with it in his name. The fact that the registration is about to expire and will be difficult to renew seems to be what’s precipitating the current crisis. I’m simply saying that the situation isn’t necessarily that urgent. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/47 "2015-05-08T21:19:01Z")
I would give her the car and let her sort out the problems herself. If you feel like she’s a good person and you have money to spare, give it to her instead. No strings. Maybe one day she will be there when you need help. Maybe not. You know this person better than anyone here though. I don’t see the value in the car if it’s not going to pass inspection unless she wants to sell it to someone else who can fix it. Would that bother you? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/48 "2015-05-08T21:21:33Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > I understand that, but he’s been letting her drive it for five years with it in his name. Yes; he’s been lucky. He might not stay lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/49 "2015-05-08T21:25:10Z")
Can’t she buy a scooter instead? Or a bike with sidebags? That is how I do all my grocery shopping. Does it have to be a car, if she cant afford one? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/50 "2015-05-08T21:43:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Also, if she can’t pay the money she owes to the DMV, how can she pay back a loan? > > Therefore, you need to consider this a gift, not a loan. If you give her the grand, she will have to have enough to buy a car and to pay off her debt to the DMV. How much is her debt? > > Donate the car to one of those charities that fixes up cars for the poor. Take the tax write-off. If you want to give her $1000 to pay off the DMV and buy another car, be prepared when she says that $1000 wasn’t enough and can she have more, and when she says she spent her whole paycheck on the new car and can she have $100 until payday, and when she says she can’t afford to pay you back on the loan. > > Regards, > Shodan This is wisdom. Also, a post above points out that you seem to want to lend her the money, regardless. So, if you want to feel all warm and fuzzy several more times during the upcoming year when you lend her more money, have at it(esp. when she doesn’t register her new $1000 vehicle, and asks you for the money for that…after it is overdue/expired/whatever…and the repairs-after all, it is a $1000 dollar car). ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/51 "2015-05-08T21:50:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes; he’s been lucky. He might not stay lucky. How exactly has he “been lucky?” There’s no law against letting someone drive your car. Assuming the car has had liability insurance, the worst thing that’s likely to happen is she crashes it and the OP is out the car that he wanted to get rid of anyways and maybe his insurance rates go up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.Pu-du-he-pa-as)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/52 "2015-05-08T22:03:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So I have a neighbor that I’ve been letting use my old car since I was stationed in Saudi Arabia in 2009. I’ve been back for a year now, and the registration needs renewed, and I will just give her the car (2003 Kia Spectra). > > she, however, can’t register a car because of money owed to the DMV, and when a car is sold (even for $0) it requires an inspection which it can’t pass. > > She wants me to keep the registration in my name, which I won’t do. So now she wants a loan from me to purchase a new car and she will make payments to me on the loan for a year. > > I am just a neighbor, not family or close friend or anything, and my family is adamantly against loaning any money, stating “you’ve done enough by letting her use the car for 5 years” > > However, a small loan of $1000 or so won’t really hurt me in any way. > > There are a lot of other circumstances that I don’t want to list, for fear that I am listing them just to get the answer I want. > > I guess the bottom line is, should I help someone I can afford to help if they are less better off than me, regardless of the circumstances? > > I hope this is coherent, I’ve had a couple of beers. Here’s how I’d think about it. As a general policy, I don’t loan people money. I wouldn’t give people control over money that I couldn’t afford to lose, but if I’d be OK with losing it, and they really need money that badly…then what am I doing asking for it back? Just give the money, and that way you’re not put in a position of having to choose between the money and the relationship if they can’t/won’t come through with repayment. In any case, is it a good idea to loan/give her $1000? I’m thinking not. You want to loan her the money so that she can have a car, right? I don’t think giving her the money would actually accomplish that result. I don’t think she could reasonably be able to buy a car for $1000, certainly not one that wouldn’t require additional money for repairs. She already owes money to the DMV which she isn’t able to pay off. So, what happens to the money that you loaned her that she can’t successfully buy a car with? I think you’d just be getting into a mess. ---
**Author:** ![scootergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@scootergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scootergirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/53 "2015-05-08T22:19:12Z")
I’m not able to read too many of the responses right now - my apologies if this has been stated already. I have two very simple rules when it comes to lending and borrowing money. - I don’t lend it unless I can do without it at the time, **and** be OK with not getting it back - this is a lesson I learned many years ago. - I don’t borrow it unless I can pay it back - in full and on time. Of course unforeseen circumstances do and can happen, but it is still a good rule to live by. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/54 "2015-05-09T01:19:17Z")
Let her have the $1000, no loan. Don’t just hand over the money though. Wait until she’s found a car she likes and then pay for it. I’d be worried that she would spend the $1000 on something else, then have nothing to show for it. Also, sell the old car and go to the DMV with her to pay what she owes. It should end there. Don’t register it in your name. Don’t add her to your insurance. Nothing else. You’re a good person, and you know you want to give her the money, so do it. I wish I had a neighbor like you. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/55 "2015-05-09T03:53:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > More background: she uses the car to go to work and church and what not, so without it, she would just be stuck at home. Does that change anyone’s mind? No, because you did help her, for five years, and she chose not to help herself even though imposing on you forever, or even expecting the car to last forever, is not a responsible or realistic approach to life. At this point further enabling her won’t help her. It’ll teach her that whatever shit she pulls, someone will always swoop in to bail her out. She’s not going to learn self-sufficiency from you; if it was going to happen it would have already. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/56 "2015-05-09T05:32:11Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > How exactly has he “been lucky?” There’s no law against letting someone drive your car. Assuming the car has had liability insurance, the worst thing that’s likely to happen is she crashes it and the OP is out the car that he wanted to get rid of anyways and maybe his insurance rates go up a bit. The car can easily be involved in an accident where the damages exceed the liability insurance. If that happens the OP is responsible for paying up the difference. This can go into the millions of dollars and he can lose everything he owns. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/57 "2015-05-09T07:15:27Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The car can easily be involved in an accident where the damages exceed the liability insurance. If that happens the OP is responsible for paying up the difference. This can go into the millions of dollars and he can lose everything he owns. In most states this isn’t true. The minimum liability insurance rules usually require those liability policies to be written in such a way that they cover someone borrowing a car with the owner’s permission BUT the owner of the car isn’t actually liable beyond that, provided the act of lending the car itself wasn’t negligent (for example if you knew the driver was drunk.) So if you lend your car to someone and they smash it into a Ferrari with a trunk full of Monets, your insurance policy will pay out to the limits but the driver will be on the hook for the rest\*. (Most states do have statutes that make the owner responsible in the case of the parents of teenagers and employers.) There are a few states that say the driver is in fact liable, but only up to the limits of the state minimum liability requirements. So in other words if you didn’t have the liability insurance you’d have to pay up to those limits out of pocket before the driver had to pay. There used to be a handful of states where it did work like you’re imagining, where the “vicarious liability” of an owner was either unlimited or had a very high limit. Most of those states did away with those laws when auto leasing became popular, though. I _think_ Florida is the only one left (and that law has been further gutted by a federal law exempting lessors and rental car companies.) (\*Incidentally, this is why having an umbrella policy is a good thing if you’re in the habit of driving other peoples’ cars.) ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/58 "2015-05-09T07:29:03Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > There are a few states that say the driver is in fact liable, but only up to the limits of the state minimum liability requirements. So in other words if you didn’t have the liability insurance you’d have to pay up to those limits out of pocket before the driver had to pay. Oops, missed the edit window, but this should read: "There are a few states that say the **owner** is in fact liable, but only up to the limits of the state minimum liability requirements. So in other words if you didn’t have the liability insurance you’d have to pay up to those limits out of pocket before the driver had to pay. " Also in spite of all the above, lawyers still routinely _try_ to sue the owner of the car in cases like these (especially if the owner has deep pockets or is well insured) but they don’t win unless there really are some grounds for saying letting the person drive the car was negligent. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/59 "2015-05-09T07:36:55Z")
And do you really want to help her, or are you just afraind that it will be awkward if you stop the help now and then run into her in the street afterwards? “Hi mrs. Neighbour! So, walking to church, eh? Yes, it looks like rain but that is a good raincoat you’ve got there!” Because if that is it, then you will probably have to help her for as long as you live there. Or you could just start to help someone a bit further away. Let your church inform you if there is such a person. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528/60 "2015-05-09T08:41:12Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Step one, get rid of the car. > > Step two, loan her the $1000. > > Why? Because it’s clearly what you’d prefer, and you’re the one who gets to decide! > > It’s nice that you’ve helped her in this way for all these years. And it’s nice that you’re willing to help her some more by lending her money. > > However, I would offer you this caution, if you loan her this money I fear you’re turning your self into an ATM. You’re sending a pretty big signal, that you still feel the need to help out, due to her ‘needing’ the car for church etc. She WILL manifest other ‘needs’ that WILL require your financial assistance, I predict. And you’re obviously a pretty soft touch for her. Proceed with great caution. > > If you make this loan/gift consider repeatedly, and emphatically pointing out that in making this loan it is understood this will END, completely and entirely, your financial assistance. That you will refuse to hear any other future requests for funds, no matter the reason, HOWEVER LARGE OR SMALL. Have her repeat it back to you. More than once. > > Will it stop her from applying to you for further financial assistance? I think that’s unlikely. Will it keep you from putting more money in her pocket? I doubt that too, but at least you will have your own words ringing in your ears as you reach into your pocket, again. Should you actually give her money a second time you WILL have turned yourself into an ATM, in her eyes, and you’ll have only yourself to blame for that, in my opinion. > > If you cannot say no now, do not delude yourself into believing it will somehow be easier after a half dozen “yes’s” ! I repeat, proceed with great caution. Also very sound advice. My rather cynical side would predict that actually, what will happen is: Immediately after the $1000 loan/gift, some emergency will arise (repayment of some previous debt/unspecified family/health/financial issue) and she will not spend the money on her own car, but will try to keep borrowing the OP’s car and/or come back for another loan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemma-loaning-money-you-can-afford-to-loan/719528.md?page=4)